Job Discussion Forums

[Hod]

[artemisia]

Maybe not but if you're not in EFL anymore and think it's a waste of time then is your sole point in posting here to 'educate' teachers and would-be teachers? There seem to be many who share your views and while I don't have a problem with people not liking teaching or thinking TEFL can be an exploitative job, I don't see why this or the notion that it's a complete dead-end should be presented as the definitive TEFL experience.

I may not stay as an ESL teacher myself but I'd never think to impose my own experiences and wishes on an entire industry and a group of teachers. The trouble is I think such attitudes help to contribute to exploitative work conditions as teachers will be more likely to put up with them if a general acceptance that it's just a non-job becomes the norm.

[johnslat]

Dear Hod,

"I�m still not convinced by the teaching career path even with an MA, which I don�t even rate as a qualification having seen a lot of MAs trying to teach (not teach, lecture)."

It seems that you're fond of generalizations: ESL is a McJob; MAs are crap.

I'm happy for you that you made your "escape" and enjoy what you're doing now, but I think it displays quite a bit of arrogance to think (and proclaim) that your experience, your attitude, your situation are the ONLY right ones for everyone involved in EFL.

They aren't.

Regards,
John

[Hod]

Give me Burger King any day. McJob � � 2010 was trademarked by the opening poster.

I never said MAs were crap, but having an MA does not necessarily a good teacher make. One or two above make this claim.

This is a discussion forum for opinions. Another common opinion is that it�s grim back in ______ (insert homeland). I�m not having that. Not one person reading this forum will come from a backward country. I promise you there will always be more opportunities in your own homelands. Right now isn�t the greatest time to be changing careers, but then again don�t tell me TEFL isn�t immune to the effects of a poor economy either.

The above is an opinion of an ex-TEFLer. It�s just the same as saying I prefer tea to coffee, i.e. not something to get too bothered about.

[johnslat]

Dear Hod,


" . . .even with an MA, which I don�t even rate as a qualification . . ."

Sorry, that kind of sounded to me like MAs are worthless.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I don't think, though, that this is really an "opinion":

Vanilla ice cream sucks. Nobody should eat vanilla EVER! If you're eating vanilla, you'd better stop it really soon.

Regards,
John

[Hod]

Dear John,

A bit harsh, but ice cream can make you fat and has no real health benefits. If an ex-ice cream eater told a bunch of ice cream eaters about his life after ice cream, would that make him a bad person?

[johnslat]

Dear Hod,

I don't think you're a bad person - I just don't like the way you generalize your experiences and what they taught you to cover everyone in the EFL field.

It wasn't for you, fine. It's worked out very well for me. However, I don't feel the need to encourage everyone to stay in the field just because I've done so well.
You, however, seem to feel the need to warn people away from the field because it didn't work well for you,

Some members of Alcoholics Anonymous actually think NO ONE should drink.

I don't agree.

Regards,
John

[mozzar]

I'd take issue with this part of what you've said:

[Hod]

[TwinCentre]

The Mcjob thing is just emotive. If you are happy in TEFL, then I am happy for you because one is lucky to make a living out of something they are happy doing.

Yes, other industries leave a lot to be desired BUT I really feel the need to add a pinch of reality here for the sake of young people planning their future in 2010, not the 90s, when I started.

I am well acquainted with shifts and swings in the TEFL industry (TEFL anorak but also bored attendee of many a TEFL conference) and the fact is EFL runs more on the exploitation of young people's desire to travel than ever before. Just read the job section of this site:

'Beautiful Taiwan'

'Come and live in Paradise'

'An adventure of a lifetime'

And the like, all too commonly used...hardly gives EFL as a career much credence.

But the crunch is that EFL salaries have been dropping in actual and real terms since the 90s, student intake is dropping worldwide and non-native teachers are replacing natives in more and more countries as technology enables locals to find the resources needed to teach to a high standard (example; teaming up with non-teacher native speakers in the home countries using VioP technology)

The above trends are set to continue and accelerate. Live Online Learning is still in its infancy along with machine translation BUT they are coming in to take a further percentage of would-be students away from schools. Learning live at your PC will be the normal way to learn in 20 years time, laugh but it is coming.

Sure, there are people who work in the university sector who are happy and earn a fair whack, but then again, I don't want to live in the Middle East.

[artemisia]

[johnslat]

Dear TwinCentre,

"The above trends are set to continue and accelerate. Live Online Learning is still in its infancy along with machine translation BUT they are coming in to take a further percentage of would-be students away from schools. Learning live at your PC will be the normal way to learn in 20 years time, laugh but it is coming."

You could be right, but I'm not as clear-sighted a prognosticator as you. Also I'm perhaps a little more cautious about being positive about what the future will bring. That's one lesson having lived sixty-seven years on this planet has taught me: whatever I think the future is going to bring is probably wrong.
Heck, I'm still waiting for those flying cars.

And as for computer learning replacing "live teachers," well I can recall when, back in the 80s, the techs were promising us a "paperless society in the next decade." I just checked; paper consumption increased 50% from 2000 to 2010 and is projected to increase by another 50% from 2010 to 2020 (but then, I never trust such projections.)

Besides, our posting on here isn't likely to alter anyone's life plans -assuming they have any - and if they do, here's another piece of advice:
life has a funny way of disrupting any plans set further than, say, five minutes into the future. The best comparison I can come up with when I look back on my life is it's been a pin ball in the machine. Almost nothing turned out the way I'd "planned" it, and yet - it's been fun and I wouldn't want to change a thing.

Some will teach EFL a while and then escape. Others will stick with it for a lifetime. And I wouldn't be too surprised if each group had about the same percentage of contented and discontented individuals.

Regards,
John

[Cyburbian]

Describing ESL as a McJob can be misleading. While it certainly shares much in common (few skills needed, little chance of advancement, few professional development opportunities, non-regulated, low-status, high turnover, non-existent or super basic benefits) the fact that most, if not an extremely high percentage of ESL positions pay quite well (at least relative to the local context) almost places said positions outside the realm of McJobs.

People on McJobs in North America live hand-to-mouth in an expensive, debt encouraging economy. You make $60/day; slightly more if you manage to get something above minimum. Disposable incomes don't exist, and if you do treat your paycheck like that, you are going to end up on the street. It's a fu*king sad existence that suffered by many.

While it is also an imperfect comparison, I tend to view ESL more along the lines of temporary migrant worker in North America. You are not an psuedo-colonial expat, earning the huge salaries, rubbing shoulders with ambassadors and being driving to your huge villa by your private driver. But you are in a foreign country, on a working visa, doing a job that someone there cannot do, cannot do well, or doesn't want to do. Often you get squeezed into company owned housing with other workers and you are in it for the short-term. Money can be tight, but you can buy a lot with it, and maybe even send your earnings home to pay off debts or fund something else (usually travel). You are never really part of culture and probably don't speak the language that well, although you have some local buddies. You can't participate in politics and probably do not actively participate in local community groups or do any serious volunteering. You might work one year in this country, one year in that country. You probably don't have any decision-making powers although the odd person makes a go of it, increases their salary and maybe even takes a stab at citizenship.

[artemisia]

That may be true at times for TEFL. TESL is different. I disagree that few skills are needed in terms of doing this job well but maybe I've just had some particularly demanding students. Teachers who can't do the job well don't seem to last long. I do know many got teaching jobs in the past without any skills although the days of that are waning.

[PattyFlipper]