Job Discussion Forums

[A'Moo]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I've been offered some good jobs through all the wiff waff of 4000-6000's. But seeing as how my wife's belly has decided to grow larger for the next several months, I think I will just hold off until we are certain of the future.

As for considering leaving... it's definitely a strong possibility that my visit home will be a permanent one.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I get about 10% of what my boss rakes in, and I'm fine with that.

[sharpe88]

[igorG]

10 % So, imagine 10 such employees and where your boss would be. Just think about their costs, if you can.

[vikeologist]

People are paid what the market supports, not necessarily what they are worth.

A friend of mine charges 150 kuai per hour for English classes, and expects her students to fit around her schedule. When students say that 150 is a bit high, (which it is) and can she lower the price, she explains that she could put the price up and still have more students than she can accommodate (which she could).

Admittedly, there are some complicating factors with jobs in China.

1. As foreigners it is almost impossible to open our own schools in China, at least without having huge financial resources and paying bribes. The system is very stacked against us. It's unfair. Boo hoo.

2, We're not allowed to teach privates, and thus engage with customers directly.

3. We are easily replacable. It may mean a drop in quality, but the availability of replacements undermines any bargaining power we have.

However, none of this takes away from the key fact that we shouldn't expect to be paid either what we're worth, or what we need. We will always be paid what people are prepared to pay us.

There's a 3-stage process to this.

1. Offer people what they need.
2. Even if they don't need it, make them believe that they do.
3. Extract the maximum payment, or in a wider sense, reward.

I find it interesting that some wanted to criticise Eastwest's comments. The person was basically telling us what he needs. I don't necessarily agree with everything he said, or even think that his person specification is very good, but his comments were invaluable and very interesting.

If an employer tells you what they need, don't argue; listen, (or in this case read).

[therock]

[nickpellatt]

[daCabbie]

I don't think any employee is deserving of a 50/50 split. I believe in profit sharing but not an equal cut.

If you want an equal cut you have to be willing to take some of the risk. Put up the capital before hand. Sign a long term lease. Spend the money to remodel and build classroom. Invest in books. Most importantly; take some of the risk.

What happens when a child falls down the stairs and breaks a leg or worse. The parents don't sue the foreign teacher they go after the owners.

Or what happens when one day an official walks in and says, 'you are doing a good business here. Give me an extra 10k a month or I will shut you down.' The teachers aren't reaching into their pockets to pay him (granted the owner will eventually squeeze them for it).

Liability is the responsibility of the owner not his/her employees. That is the greatest difference between the two. If you want a bigger slice of the pie, than go and do it on your own.

Those who have owned and operated businesses know that its no walk in the park.

[igorG]

I see that the 50/50 has got many going on. But shoud the topic be about the share, in a sense of income, FTs get, or should it be about the job adverts and terms and conditions offered on mainland? Really, it's getting to the point where three choices are on the table; one to eat what's offered, one to starve, and one to board the next plane out. The more lagguage you have, the more difficult the choice may be.

[7969]

[kev7161]

[7969]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[nickpellatt]

I have chipped in a few times with comments about cost of living threads and salaries. When I compare China to the UK, I often make comparisons within EFL.

I have alternated my last 5 years between China and the UK. I also work in EFL when Im in the UK, so I can make quite close comparison between the work here in the UK and in China. The market in China for EFL compares very favourably to working in the same sector in the UK. (I left China in June BTW, and will return late next summer)

I have just received details for Easter/Whitsun/Summer/Autumn contracts from an employer I have worked for over 3 years. Their salary for degree holding, TEFL certified teachers is �50 per 4.5 hour teaching morning. That works out at about 110 RMB per hour.

(Non TEFL qualified get less, �39 per morning or 85 RMB per hour)

Language schools with year round adult students normally pay a very similar rate, but run a very very tight ship that requires detailed lesson plans and observations etc. Again, only CELTA/Trinity teachers need apply.

I also have an application pending for work at a state college. This is just bank sessional work but the rate is generous at �20, or 200 RMB per hour. HOWEVER, this type of work is far more likely to go to DELTA holders or MA TESOL holders. BA+Trinity+summer schools and China experience will probably mean I am underqualified for this job!

It goes without saying, none of the above include any fringe benefits such as housing, utilities, travel perks etc.

EFL teachers in the West often find it hard to find year round work, especially those who are only moderately qualified/experienced, and without wealthy partners or supportive families would find it very difficult to save anything.

EFL teachers in China, even in the more basic jobs CAN easily enjoy more disposable income than those in many/most Western EFL environments. Entry level work in the EU is far far worse paid!

Cost of living in China may be rising, salaries may be stagnant, but the packages on offer with most Chinese employers are still very generous for the industry.