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Phil_K

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject:

Quote:

IF a school offers something unique (and that's a big IF), it has got to charge more than the bottom-rung, commonplace places. Will students pay?

Not necessarily true. Better doesn't always mean more expensive. As far as teachers are concerned, I think most good ones would accept a little above the going rate, together with the possiblity of later being a real part of a potentially successful organization. And a good methodology doesn't have to cost money.

Quote:

Furthermore, a business that is founded on a client continuing with them indefinitely for years and years (because in this business long-term attrition is as important as matriculation) is a tenuous business. When can the service be considered rendered and complete?

The potential client base is enormous - the reported percentage of Mexicans fluent in English is in single figures - and while recognizing that the attitude of the students in not always correct, the motivation can be worked into the methodolgy in various ways. where there exists a flaw in the business model, there also exists a challenge. Empires were never built on defeatism.

Quote:

I think a language school is a bad business model.

I think Interlingua, Berlitz, IH, Harmon Hall, etc might disagree with you.

Isla Guapa

Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I think a language school is a bad business model.

Quote:

I think Interlingua, Berlitz, IH, Harmon Hall, etc might disagree with you.

Just because the big chains make a lot of money doesn't mean that their students are learning the language.

TeresaLopez

Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:53 pm Post subject:

Isla Guapa wrote:

Just because the big chains make a lot of money doesn't mean that their students are learning the language.

Bingo! Some do, but I have often wondered how much has to do with the school, and how much has to do with each individual student�s motivation, as well as other activities they do outside to class to help things along. But a lot don�t learn. I just met a woman the other day who had taken 8 levels at Interlingua and couldn�t string a basic sentence together, or ask a question correctly.

Phil_K

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject:

Isla Guapa wrote:

Quote:

I think a language school is a bad business model.

Quote:

I think Interlingua, Berlitz, IH, Harmon Hall, etc might disagree with you.

Just because the big chains make a lot of money doesn't mean that their students are learning the language.

I wonder where McDonalds or Starbucks would be if they actually made great burgers or coffee.

I guess some people are born to criticize, and others to do.

What if we could actually help people learn English AND make money...

mejms

Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject:

[quote="Phil_K"]

Quote:

I think a language school is a bad business model.

I think Interlingua, Berlitz, IH, Harmon Hall, etc might disagree with you.

Phil, you can't have your cake and eat it too. These schools are, on the one hand, examples of offering poor curriculum, a poor product, and stale methodology and, on the other hand, are examples of successful business models in the industry?

Sure. My point was that this is an undervalued service. The majority of your potential clients will not commit to classes for years. We're talking about a long-term investment of time, money, and lots of patience. The schools you name made their money on constant matriculation, recognized names, and gimmicky marketing. I'm casting in doubt your premise that people will continue paying for a service of indefinite length, regardless of the quality. Really, how good is Berlitz? How effective is its curriculum? How qualified its teachers? How reasonable its costs? How committed its students? Yet we're going to use it as an example of success. Fair enough. Better to focus on marketing and name-building than curriculum and a specially conceived mentoring project.

First off, classes need to be as convenient as possible. That's the number one concern. If students miss classes when they're down the hall in the conference room, they'll be sure to stop altogether if it's in a separate location altogether, such as a school. These are the details that are much, much more important to clients than the actual quality of the language school.

McDonalds and Starbucks are services that people value: entertainment and distraction. On top of that, there is no commitment involved in going to one of these places. They sell a product, you buy, enjoy it, and come back whenever you want. Not so with a school, my friend.

My point is that a business that is ENTIRELY based on a long-term service with no clear end is an ill-conceived one. I've thought long and hard about this, as I considered going the route of doing it myself. For awhile it was something that I wanted, that I hoped for. Better judgement has won out.

Isla Guapa

Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject:

Phil_K wrote:

Isla Guapa wrote:

Quote:

I think a language school is a bad business model.

Quote:

I think Interlingua, Berlitz, IH, Harmon Hall, etc might disagree with you.

Just because the big chains make a lot of money doesn't mean that their students are learning the language.

It's possible both "to criticize and do", Phil. I help my students learn English and make money, but I do it on my own, not as an employee of a language school.

mejms

Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I guess some people are born to criticize, and others to do.

At the risk of distracting from what I'm actually saying, I'll add that, Phil, I don't think we're trying to rain on your parade. Isla says she does alright for herself. I do pretty well and support my wife and two kids on what I make. But I have decided not to take my independent teaching to the next step of incorporating. I think it is an unwise move and am investing my time and future prospects elsewhere. Nothing wrong with laying your cards on the table and saying that something doesn't work. Surely we won't just dismiss that as "criticism."

Phil_K

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject:

Let me say, mejms, how much I enjoy your well-considered contributions. Every objection to my equally well-considered, not to say, well-researched principles helps me to think them through even more deeply.

Quote:

I was just using these as an example against your "bad business model" argument, not as an example to follow. I agree with all you say about about their product, but see that as an opportunity. A business can be sustainable on two fronts. Purely trading on a reputation, fairly earned or not, or by revolutionizing the marketing, offering a great product at a good price. The best businesses are created where the existing product fails the public. Why is that not achievable?

Quote:

If students miss classes when they're down the hall in the conference room, they'll be sure to stop altogether if it's in a separate location altogether, such as a school. These are the details that are much, much more important to clients than the actual quality of the language school.

So? Design your product so that it means that it doesn't matter if the student misses an occasional class!

Problems are opportunities dressed in working clothes.

Quote:

McDonalds and Starbucks are services that people value: entertainment and distraction. On top of that, there is no commitment involved in going to one of these places. They sell a product, you buy, enjoy it, and come back whenever you want. Not so with a school, my friend.

Fair point. I agree it's not the same, but how about if the McEnglish school actually turned out students fluent in English?

Phil_K

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject:

Isla Guapa wrote:

Phil_K wrote:

Isla Guapa wrote:

Quote:

I think a language school is a bad business model.

Quote:

I think Interlingua, Berlitz, IH, Harmon Hall, etc might disagree with you.

Just because the big chains make a lot of money doesn't mean that their students are learning the language.

It's possible both "to criticize and do", Phil. I help my students learn English and make money, but I do it on my own, not as an employee of a language school.

Fair enough, I didn't mean to direct that comment directly at you, Isla. You have a pension, and are comfortable with the work that you do. I am still a young 48, I don't have a pension and will need one in the not-too-distant future. Therefore, I guess my priorities are different.

Isla Guapa

Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject:

Phil_K wrote:

Isla Guapa wrote:

Phil_K wrote:

Isla Guapa wrote:

Quote:

I think a language school is a bad business model.

Quote:

I think Interlingua, Berlitz, IH, Harmon Hall, etc might disagree with you.

Just because the big chains make a lot of money doesn't mean that their students are learning the language.

It's possible both "to criticize and do", Phil. I help my students learn English and make money, but I do it on my own, not as an employee of a language school.

True, I have a pension, albeit a very small one, so I don't need to earn as much money as I would without it. But I could easily find more long-term students if I wanted to and thus live off my earnings. Of course, I don't have a family to support and don't expect to live at the level I did when living in the US. I enjoy living modestly in a place where my income covers my expenses with some left over for travel and savings.

Phil_K

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject:

Quote:

and don't expect to live at the level I did when living in the US.

Whereas I do (changing US for UK!), if not better, which is achievable in Mexico.

mejms

Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Fair point. I agree it's not the same, but how about if the McEnglish school actually turned out students fluent in English?

I assume that you're using "fluency" very loosely because I very much doubt that someone can become fluent in any language without being immersed in it.

Language learning is a very slow learning curve. That's why years are involved in order to make genuine progress. I don't know who your market base is, but if it's business professionals, I think English classes will always be low on the priority scale (even when they often work with English-speaking clients and suppliers!).

Why? Same reason that people so often give up on going to the gym. It's so hard and results take so long. I've made the comparison before and I will again because it fits. Gyms make their money on the frequent short-term hopefuls who will give up in a matter of time and the select dedicated gym-goers. I think any language school model will have much the same type of clientele. Why struggle so much to squeeze pesos out of this business? Aren't there better areas of opportunity?

By the way, Phil, I appreciate your thoughtful comments, too. And your recent optimism! But... the platitudes just don't change reality.[/quote]

Phil_K

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Why struggle so much to squeeze pesos out of this business? Aren't there better areas of opportunity?

How about devoting your time to something you have a good knowledge of, and think you can help make a difference to, and hopefully making a few (or more than a few) pesos as a by-product. If you fail, that's fine. But failure isn't not succeeding (double negative) when you try your best; it's not trying at all.

MotherF

Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject:

It is a paradox isn't it? If I suceed in teaching you English, you will no longer be my client. If I really sell what I'm selling, I will lose rather than retain customers... It's a good thing that most people out there simply do not have the ablitity to dedicate the required amount of time to learning a language! I think I'll just keep working for an institution dedicated to the free spead of knowledge.

mejms

Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:00 pm Post subject:

Quote:

That's fine, Phil. But it doesn't necessarily coincide with this:

Phil_K wrote:

Quote:

and don't expect to live at the level I did when living in the US.

Whereas I do (changing US for UK!), if not better, which is achievable in Mexico.

I don't think it's very good business model to get involved in if you're looking to make money. The service is really undervalued. But I would love to see you succeed and see more professionalism in the industry around here! But I doubt that professionalism will be met with equal enthusiasm, commitment, and long-term seriousness from future clients.

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