|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| canada_1986 wrote: |
A Harmon Hall in Guadalajara I've been in contact with recently told me I would need a TOEFL certificate in order to work there. I am a native English speaker from Canada.
I don't have a problem with that per se, but I am curious why they require it and no other schools I've been in contact with require it. Those certificates aren't cheap either. |
It's true that TOEFL certificates do not come cheap, and I think it's absurd for a not-so-great school like Harmon Hall to require native speakers with a university degree to submit TOEFL scores to be considered for employment. Why not wait till you get down here and look for work at schools that do not have this requirement? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
canada_1986
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| canada_1986 wrote: |
A Harmon Hall in Guadalajara I've been in contact with recently told me I would need a TOEFL certificate in order to work there. I am a native English speaker from Canada.
I don't have a problem with that per se, but I am curious why they require it and no other schools I've been in contact with require it. Those certificates aren't cheap either. |
It's true that TOEFL certificates do not come cheap, and I think it's absurd for a not-so-great school like Harmon Hall to require native speakers with a university degree to submit TOEFL scores to be considered for employment. Why not wait till you get down here and look for work at schools that do not have this requirement? |
Probably a good idea. There seem to be a lot of other schools that don't require it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BadBeagleBad
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| canada_1986 wrote: |
It's true that TOEFL certificates do not come cheap, and I think it's absurd for a not-so-great school like Harmon Hall to require native speakers with a university degree to submit TOEFL scores to be considered for employment. Why not wait till you get down here and look for work at schools that do not have this requirement? |
Probably a good idea. There seem to be a lot of other schools that don't require it.[/quote]
Indeed! In fact, Harmon Hall is the only school I have ever heard of that does, and I have been teaching ESL, off and on, for 20 years! Some of them will give you an in-house test, which is no big deal for a native speaker. But having some in contact recently with a teacher who not only didn�t really speak well, he also couldn�t spell, or even construct a gramatically correct sentence, I am not sure that some kind of testng isn�t a good idea. No every native speaker should be teaching ESL. The, TOEFL, on the otherhand, is waaaaayyyy over the top. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BadBeagleBad wrote: |
| canada_1986 wrote: |
It's true that TOEFL certificates do not come cheap, and I think it's absurd for a not-so-great school like Harmon Hall to require native speakers with a university degree to submit TOEFL scores to be considered for employment. Why not wait till you get down here and look for work at schools that do not have this requirement? |
Probably a good idea. There seem to be a lot of other schools that don't require it. |
Indeed! In fact, Harmon Hall is the only school I have ever heard of that does, and I have been teaching ESL, off and on, for 20 years! Some of them will give you an in-house test, which is no big deal for a native speaker. But having some in contact recently with a teacher who not only didn�t really speak well, he also couldn�t spell, or even construct a gramatically correct sentence, I am not sure that some kind of testng isn�t a good idea. No every native speaker should be teaching ESL. The, TOEFL, on the otherhand, is waaaaayyyy over the top.[/quote]
I took one of those in-house tests a few years ago. It was a multiple-choice grammar test, and I actually got a couple of the questions wrong! Of course, if a job applicant can't speak English well, then a short interview would make that clear enough, and a reasonable written test would take care of the rest. Why would someone with a poor command of his own tongue think he could teach it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Why would someone with a poor command of his own tongue think he could teach it?"
Perhaps a lack of job prospects? An urgent need for a pay check? Maybe that person has nowhere near the level of professionalism you do Isla.
Every under qualified "teacher" has a place in this market. There will always be English language businesses willing to cut corners and hire them. Everyone needs a starting point so as long as the school is clear with the students and the students are fine with their teachers then there isnt an issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| the peanut gallery wrote: |
"Why would someone with a poor command of his own tongue think he could teach it?"
Perhaps a lack of job prospects? An urgent need for a pay check? Maybe that person has nowhere near the level of professionalism you do Isla.
Every under qualified "teacher" has a place in this market. There will always be English language businesses willing to cut corners and hire them. Everyone needs a starting point so as long as the school is clear with the students and the students are fine with their teachers then there isnt an issue. |
The problem with this hiring philosophy is that I doubt a school would make clear to its students that their new English teacher is unqualified for the job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
geaaronson
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
People usually have a good idea of their teacher`s capabilities or lack thereof. There are many people who desperately want to learn English to advance their careers but don`t have the income to pay for classes at the better English schools. So they settle for second best and second best teachers get the jobs there. If the second rate teacher becomes a first rate teacher either through better mastery of the language or teaching skills, he will go on to a better position. If not, only by sheer luck will he get on.
In teaching at Movistar/Televisa in Santa Fe, there were several of us native English teachers who were given the conversational classes. These were students with 550 Toeffl scores and above who were confident in their English but needed to hone their speaking skills in talking with their counterparts in LA and NYC. There were many employees who did not have such a task and were deficient in the language and wished to improve their English to move up the corporate ladder. For them, they had a Mexican English teacher who was a bit confused as to whether we say, " The people in Mexico is/are good". Nevertheless, her English was more advanced than her students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| geaaronson wrote: |
| For them, they had a Mexican English teacher who was a bit confused as to whether we say, " The people in Mexico is/are good". Nevertheless, her English was more advanced than her students. |
Thank God for that  !
I've had students come to me for private classeswho had studied at academies that employed Mexican English students like the one geaaronson mentions above, and they were not pleased with the instruction they'd received. And it wasn't that the fees they paid were so reasonable either. On the other hand, a lot of my private tutoring business comes from such dissatisfied students, so perhaps I shouldn't be so critical! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canada_1986
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| geaaronson wrote: |
| For them, they had a Mexican English teacher who was a bit confused as to whether we say, " The people in Mexico is/are good". Nevertheless, her English was more advanced than her students. |
Thank God for that !
I've had students come to me for private classeswho had studied at academies that employed Mexican English students like the one geaaronson mentions above, and they were not pleased with the instruction they'd received. And it wasn't that the fees they paid were so reasonable either. On the other hand, a lot of my private tutoring business comes from such dissatisfied students, so perhaps I shouldn't be so critical! |
That does not surprise me. A friend of mine from Western Mexico took English for several years in her hometown, and later took English in Canada and the United States. She was more satisfied with the courses north of the border.
She did point out, however, that there were no Native English teachers at her schools in Mexico. She is from a nice part of the country but relatively unknown, so it probably gets very few Native English teaching applicants anyways. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: Re: Harmon Hall testing for Native Speakers? |
|
|
| davidmsgi wrote: |
| What test(s) does Harmon Hall administer and utilize in the evaluation of a "newbie" like me, who applies for a teaching job with no experience? |
The test for HH is pretty easy amigo so you can relax if you decide to go that route. There's a listening part and some easy grammar from what I remember. After the test you will have to go in everyday for about 2 weeks and they will explain their methodology to you. You will have to watch a few classes and then give about a 30 minute class while the main teacher and someone from management watches. It's no big deal. You will have to follow the book and finish the sections you are supposed to on time. You'll do fine.
TOEFL? You don't need to take that. It has nada to do with getting a job at HH. The TOEFL is usually for people wanting to study in a university.
The teaching at HH will have you following the book to a T. Each chapter has a section on grammar, speaking, and some other areas. Just study up on the grammar section before class. As far as age discrimination goes, there are some HH schools that won't hire you over 30 or 35. I had one HH branch tell me no because I was over 35 but most of them don't care.
You'll probably make the most money from a HH in Mexico City. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more information on HH. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
davidmsgi
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Harmon Hall uses Touchstone Textbooks.
If you want to get a feel for the material you'd be using for classes before applying for a job at HH, you can easily access and/or download the Touchstone books online.
I use Touchstone in my classes at a University - Levels 3 and 4.
I guess my school decided on these books for all of their English classes a couple of years ago. I'm not particularly impressed with the material, but Touchstone seems to be pretty popular in Mexico.
If you want to try for a broader range of teaching opportunities, get a TKT certification and you can talk with lots of different schools in Mexico.
The Language 'chain' schools have been highlighted in many threads on this forum, with a mix of positive and negative feedback - so do your homework.
Good luck. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
