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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
Jesus, that would be scary.
If that happened, I would likely leave Japan. I'm serious.
For me, the Instructor visa would be a serious downgrade. |
How so? |
Because the Instructor visa only allows you to do one thing: teaching. |
You would leave Japan over a minor inconvenience which could be rectified with a trip down to immigration?
That seems quite the over reaction. |
Whether or not I left would depend on how hard-assed the immigration folks were with issuing me permission to engage in non-teaching work (either on the side or full-time). If they were hard-assed about it, then yes, I would leave. Otherwise, I might stay.
Don't get me wrong, my eikaiwa gig is relatively decent. But I don't intend on teaching until I'm 34. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
If that happened, I would likely leave Japan. I'm serious.
For me, the Instructor visa would be a serious downgrade. |
How so? |
Because the Instructor visa only allows you to do one thing: teaching. |
But if you wanted to do other work outside the description of the instructor visa, it's a simple matter to ask for special permission:
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/shikakugai.html
You seem to realize this, from what you wrote, but ALT and eikaiwa work are so closely related that it seem inconceivable that immigration would turn you down to work both as long as you have a valid visa. Or was there some other kind of work you hoped to take on?
As for the other comments from seklarwia and Mr_Monkey, I hope you both realize that I was on your side. Seklarwia's little question made me wonder if you felt I was so naive that I couldn't figure out what was needed (visa regs).
Yes, of course, the regs need to be changed to get truly qualified people as ALTs (or any other teachers, for that matter). Now, if I might pose another question, what's it going to take to get those regs changed? I honestly don't think enough bureaucrats in Japan think it's necessary. MEXT guidelines on English education are an empty pile of text, IMO. MEXT doesn't even try to govern / regulate dispatch agencies.
Change the regs to require more appropriate education / experience for ALTs, and you will probably see a major dropoff in numbers of candidates for dispatch agencies and the JET program. And, those other things mentioned (better educating/training the JTEs, for example) will all have to take place, but I really don't see it happening, either. Do either of you, and if so, how? My thought is that a huge change needs to be made at several levels (governmental and BOE policy) before any decent implementation of this would have a chance of succeeding. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| As for the other comments from seklarwia and Mr_Monkey, I hope you both realize that I was on your side. Seklarwia's little question made me wonder if you felt I was so naive that I couldn't figure out what was needed (visa regs). |
No no - I understood perfectly clearly.
| Quote: |
Yes, of course, the regs need to be changed to get truly qualified people as ALTs (or any other teachers, for that matter). Now, if I might pose another question, what's it going to take to get those regs changed? I honestly don't think enough bureaucrats in Japan think it's necessary. MEXT guidelines on English education are an empty pile of text, IMO. MEXT doesn't even try to govern / regulate dispatch agencies.
Change the regs to require more appropriate education / experience for ALTs, and you will probably see a major dropoff in numbers of candidates for dispatch agencies and the JET program. And, those other things mentioned (better educating/training the JTEs, for example) will all have to take place, but I really don't see it happening, either. Do either of you, and if so, how? My thought is that a huge change needs to be made at several levels (governmental and BOE policy) before any decent implementation of this would have a chance of succeeding. |
Again, I agree.
To be honest, I think a drop-off in numbers would be the proverbial Good Thing. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| As for the other comments from seklarwia and Mr_Monkey, I hope you both realize that I was on your side. Seklarwia's little question made me wonder if you felt I was so naive that I couldn't figure out what was needed (visa regs). |
No no - I understood perfectly clearly.
| Quote: |
Yes, of course, the regs need to be changed to get truly qualified people as ALTs (or any other teachers, for that matter). Now, if I might pose another question, what's it going to take to get those regs changed? I honestly don't think enough bureaucrats in Japan think it's necessary. MEXT guidelines on English education are an empty pile of text, IMO. MEXT doesn't even try to govern / regulate dispatch agencies.
Change the regs to require more appropriate education / experience for ALTs, and you will probably see a major dropoff in numbers of candidates for dispatch agencies and the JET program. And, those other things mentioned (better educating/training the JTEs, for example) will all have to take place, but I really don't see it happening, either. Do either of you, and if so, how? My thought is that a huge change needs to be made at several levels (governmental and BOE policy) before any decent implementation of this would have a chance of succeeding. |
Again, I agree.
To be honest, I think a drop-off in numbers would be the proverbial Good Thing. |
I agree, quality over quality.
That, and a progressive way of moving up would be good.
Tape recorder>regular ALT gig>good school>English magnet school
That would be nice, rather that it being mostly random, and arbitrary. |
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marley'sghost
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
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[quote="seklarwia
And increasingly in the dispatch world, thanks to the labour board picking apart the wording of GI, team teaching is not allowed. They actually say that the ALT is not allowed to assist the JTE (or vice versa), instead the ALT should be allocated a pre-scheduled amount of time in which they will solo teach. |
A term my dispatch co. introduced in the new training manual is "tandem teaching". "Tandem" teaching " is described as, ".....the teachers are able to rapidly switch in and out of the lead position and the secondary teacher is free to act as an advanced student , responding to instructions from the primary teacher."
So in case anyone catches you actually doing something silly like working with that often compentent, friendly, professional, helpful and generally useful Japanese person that is in your classroom, you can tell them you work in tandem, not as a team.
I thought it was brilliant. And really funny. And a little depressing. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| marley'sghost wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
And increasingly in the dispatch world, thanks to the labour board picking apart the wording of GI, team teaching is not allowed. They actually say that the ALT is not allowed to assist the JTE (or vice versa), instead the ALT should be allocated a pre-scheduled amount of time in which they will solo teach. |
A term my dispatch co. introduced in the new training manual is "tandem teaching". "Tandem" teaching " is described as, ".....the teachers are able to rapidly switch in and out of the lead position and the secondary teacher is free to act as an advanced student , responding to instructions from the primary teacher."
So in case anyone catches you actually doing something silly like working with that often compentent, friendly, professional, helpful and generally useful Japanese person that is in your classroom, you can tell them you work in tandem, not as a team.
I thought it was brilliant. And really funny. And a little depressing. |
Yep, I've heard of it. And it did make me laugh. Great thing about "tandem teaching" + GI is that unless every single one of your switches was prescheduled through your company in advance, the labour board says it's illegal for anyone at the school to give any form of order directly.
What I don't get is why the labour board is so focused on eliminating team teaching (something that if done properly, could be highly beneficial for the students) when they should be fighting things that ALTs actually care about (such as the classroom hour loophole that most employers use these days to get out of SH co-payments). |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| What I don't get is why the labour board is so focused on eliminating team teaching (something that if done properly, could be highly beneficial for the students) when they should be fighting things that ALTs actually care about (such as the classroom hour loophole that most employers use these days to get out of SH co-payments). |
My theory on this matter (and I welcome corrections from those in the know!) is that the instigator was the General Union, not the Labour Board.
The Union figured that ALTs were being squeezed because dispatch agencies have to compete for contracts. So if they could force the Boards of Education to hire teachers directly, the dispatch agencies would be relegated to mere headhunters and ALTs' conditions would improve. And what rational employer would hire "assistants" who cannot take instructions from the people they assist? Alas, bureaucracies are rarely rational.... |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| What I don't get is why the labour board is so focused on eliminating team teaching (something that if done properly, could be highly beneficial for the students) when they should be fighting things that ALTs actually care about (such as the classroom hour loophole that most employers use these days to get out of SH co-payments). |
My theory on this matter (and I welcome corrections from those in the know!) is that the instigator was the General Union, not the Labour Board.
The Union figured that ALTs were being squeezed because dispatch agencies have to compete for contracts. So if they could force the Boards of Education to hire teachers directly, the dispatch agencies would be relegated to mere headhunters and ALTs' conditions would improve. And what rational employer would hire "assistants" who cannot take instructions from the people they assist? Alas, bureaucracies are rarely rational.... |
I believe this has happened in Kitakyushu, where hiring of all (of OWLS', at least) ALTs is switching to direct hire with OWLS acting as a broker. Unfortunately (for the ALTs), the terms of employment are even worse - the contracts only pay for eight months! I understand that the salary for an individual ALT will be less than �2,000,000/year.
It sounds like an own goal for the union. |
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rich45
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| What I don't get is why the labour board is so focused on eliminating team teaching (something that if done properly, could be highly beneficial for the students) when they should be fighting things that ALTs actually care about (such as the classroom hour loophole that most employers use these days to get out of SH co-payments). |
My theory on this matter (and I welcome corrections from those in the know!) is that the instigator was the General Union, not the Labour Board.
The Union figured that ALTs were being squeezed because dispatch agencies have to compete for contracts. So if they could force the Boards of Education to hire teachers directly, the dispatch agencies would be relegated to mere headhunters and ALTs' conditions would improve. And what rational employer would hire "assistants" who cannot take instructions from the people they assist? Alas, bureaucracies are rarely rational.... |
I believe this has happened in Kitakyushu, where hiring of all (of OWLS', at least) ALTs is switching to direct hire with OWLS acting as a broker. Unfortunately (for the ALTs), the terms of employment are even worse - the contracts only pay for eight months! I understand that the salary for an individual ALT will be less than �2,000,000/year.
It sounds like an own goal for the union. |
Wow that is shocking. I interviewed with OWLs a couple of years ago when I was looking into Kyushu, but research indicated they weren't to be trusted. 8 months pay? Terrible. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
| seklarwia wrote: |
| What I don't get is why the labour board is so focused on eliminating team teaching (something that if done properly, could be highly beneficial for the students) when they should be fighting things that ALTs actually care about (such as the classroom hour loophole that most employers use these days to get out of SH co-payments). |
My theory on this matter (and I welcome corrections from those in the know!) is that the instigator was the General Union, not the Labour Board.
The Union figured that ALTs were being squeezed because dispatch agencies have to compete for contracts. So if they could force the Boards of Education to hire teachers directly, the dispatch agencies would be relegated to mere headhunters and ALTs' conditions would improve. And what rational employer would hire "assistants" who cannot take instructions from the people they assist? Alas, bureaucracies are rarely rational.... |
I believe this has happened in Kitakyushu, where hiring of all (of OWLS', at least) ALTs is switching to direct hire with OWLS acting as a broker. Unfortunately (for the ALTs), the terms of employment are even worse - the contracts only pay for eight months! I understand that the salary for an individual ALT will be less than �2,000,000/year.
It sounds like an own goal for the union. |
I bet this is why. As it is a whacky idea, with good intentions, that got torpedoed by the education system. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| I understand that the salary for an individual ALT will be less than �2,000,000/year. |
YIKES!
That's truly scary. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Terrifying, isn't it?
It's falling into line with what a teaching assistant might expect to earn in the UK. The difference is that the UK government won't issue a visa to someone who can't support themselves on a salary that will have the equivalent applicant from the UK living with mum and dad.
I wonder how long it will take immigration to say "fuck that!" to the deal... |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| I understand that the salary for an individual ALT will be less than �2,000,000/year. |
YIKES!
That's truly scary. |
Well, if you only get paid for 8 months, can you get unemployment? If teachers started collected unemployment, that might make the govt move to change things. Out of annoyance, that is. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| I understand that the salary for an individual ALT will be less than �2,000,000/year. |
YIKES!
That's truly scary. |
Well, if you only get paid for 8 months, can you get unemployment? If teachers started collected unemployment, that might make the govt move to change things. Out of annoyance, that is. |
Good idea! I'll look into that. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| I understand that the salary for an individual ALT will be less than �2,000,000/year. |
YIKES!
That's truly scary. |
Well, if you only get paid for 8 months, can you get unemployment? If teachers started collected unemployment, that might make the govt move to change things. Out of annoyance, that is. |
Good idea! I'll look into that. |
Not sure how it works here. When U was a construction worker, the concrete guys would get laid off every winter, and would collect UE. Of course the company paid a higher UE insurance rate. Wonder if that would have any bearing on this situation? As if you are only working 8 months a year, which I think is the dispatch company's dream come true, it's up to you to throw monkey wrenches in the works.
I want to see about if I can get paid duing my month long contract gap. |
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