Job Discussion Forums

[ChotoHen]

Gimpy my dear lad...you are a fool.

The term "trivial" is not only applied to matters of finance, as you would like to think. I'm using this word in terms of the bigger picture..."life". Business in Japan is cutthroat, employers and employees are going to be looking out for number one...I'm no different. Im going to do what's best for me in terms of finding the best suitable work environment. Hopefully it won't come down to quitting a job in the first month, and there is a good chance it wont, but if it does, so what. Getting a working visa in Japan is not life or death. Sorry if you and those involved in the crusade for Interac think it is.

Don't wet your panties. Thanks for making me waste another minute of my time wading through all your bull just to not get a response to my question...appreciate it.

Again, looking forward to hearing some stories.

[[email protected]]

Come on fellows, go back and read your own postings.

This whole argument started when Mr. Chotohen suggested it was OK to get a work visa through Interac and then "split." I replied and said it was a little immoral because it costs a lot of money to get a new teacher a work visa. Mr. Shmooj alleged it was only a few bucks to do so, being unable to see the bigger picture and concentrating only on the actual processing cost with the immigration department. The real cost is so much more.

Your overwhelming hatred of Interac colors everything you write. There are indeed areas to criticize Interac- I certainly don't agree with everything they do, and I would not work as an ALT for them. Just a little perspective please.

[Glenski]

Chotohen wrote:

[ChotoHen]

[Gordon]

Mr Gimp,
As far as the argument about whether or not it is right to sign a contract with the intention of leaving soon after, I'd agree it's a lousy thing to do. Everyone here I believe thinks the same thing. I've only heard one or two people say they'd do it in all the posts I've read here (that would be a lot). I think this getting blown way out of proportion here.

[TokyoLiz]

Gimp's been going on about recruiting and training. Here's my 2 cents worth.

Interac and their ilk MUST go overseas to recruit. It's the cost of doing business. Why? Because there just isn't the pool of employees to draw from here in Japan, for one thing. For another, those internatinal teachers who are already working here on humanities visas for other companies or schools would find the Interac wage a step down from what they're used to.

About the so-called training - I can't imagine, as a supervisor at a recruiting company or a head teacher at a school, taking a completely wet-behind-the-ears college grad from Australia or the US or wherever and dropping the poor rookie into a classroom within the first 24 hours of arrival in Japan without some kind of training or adjustment period. Interac crams their new recruits full of ideas and activities in the 3 day training and it's unlikely that, in a state of jet lag (not the Australians, but the Brits and N. Americans) they will retain much more than the most memorable bits.

So, what I'm saying is, the recruiting and training processes are just part of the overhead. It's the cost of doing business.

Like schmooj said, it doesn't cost that much to get a visa or get one renewed. My employer let me in on the whole process. My company is very up front about this. About man yen all told. It's really cheap to get a new recruit into the country, I tell you.

And Interac and the likes have stopped doing much more support than simply obtaining an apartment if you need help and serving as a guarantor. After that, it's all hands off. Beyond the initial startup, Interac type of companies are really just pay roll companies and liasons for the schools. Not a big overhead if you ask me.

Anyway, all of the noise in this thread seems to be impeding the one issue that's of vital importance to the client - sound pedagogy. There just isn't much professionalism out there in Japan. Although I did meet some professional teachers at the Interac training last year, March 2003, they were still a minority, I'm guessing about 10 percent. The rest were young folk stopping out before going on to more education or getting a taste of a foreign land or recovering their finances.

[[email protected]]

Yes I would agree it is time to move on past the issue of coming over on a work visa with the idea of skipping right away. Just a last couple of points.

Mr. Experience, for one, directly recommended it. Mr schmooj seemed to be saying it was all right because he didn't think it cost very much.

Mr Chotohen, despite his denials, also seemed to think it was all right. He was not concerned whether or not it was moral or ethical (although he as much as admitted it might not be when he referred to possible "guilt feelings"); his concern was what the consequences might be. He also made refernce to the need to look out for number one. It is a sad commentary on our times when looking after number one is what is most important to most people.

I also wish he wouldn't call me "Gimpy" or make foolish statements about, "wetting my panties." I react to comments like that and found myself dreaming up ways to insult him. That does me no good. Hopwever, having said all that, I will admit that I too am not guiltless and I'd like to apologize for my part and my unkind comments. I hope the hatchet is buried for good.

Tokyo Liz was right to bring up the issue of professionalism. There isn't much of it here. There aren't a lot of trained teachers over here- mainly a lot of people with B.A.'s in obscure fields who can't get a decent paying job back home, so they come here- often to pay off student loans or do a little sightseeing.

On the other hand (and I say this as one with a Teacher's Certificate and an Education degree), I'm often not that impressed with many of the "qualified" teachers I've met over the years. In fact, the absolute worst one I know actually had not one but two Master's degrees. And one of the best teachers I've ever met was a guy from Philadelphia who only had a grade nine education. His only real job prior to coming to Japan was collecting bad drug debts on behalf on the mafia. He printed a degree off the Internet, put in a couple of years at an eikawa and now owns his own school. I also know a young guy with a music degree who has been highly successful here in Japan, both as a teacher and writing curriculum for kid's classes. He's one of the best.

In short, personality, social skills, work ethic, and common sense seem to be far more important than any piece of paper. I look back on my Education degree and sometimes think it was all a waste of time- except for the certificate, of course.

[[email protected]]

My girlfriend just remined me that I forgot to include the most important factor- experience.

She's right (as usua)l. Almost everything I learned about teaching was on the job.

Maybe you learn a little more these days in the College of Education (it's a long time ago for me), but most teachers I talk to still say otherwise.

[Glenski]

[ChotoHen]

Glenski (honorable as you may be), the fact is--for every "Glenski" working at an Eikaiwa, there are 10 others working at the company who dont care about the company one bit (they might care about the students, but that is a different issue altogether). The majority of techers I met over there were in it for the cash, culture, love of teaching, or whatever, but certainly not the school itself. I agree with you that leaving a company after getting your visa is a shady thing to do, but my point was that company loyalty is not a top priority and I don't see that changing anytime soon (hence the negative reputation teachers get because there is no real bond ever formed). Schools use us, just as we use schools...it fulfills a need and most times that need is only contractual and nothing more. Sad, but true. That's where I was coming from saying that your point was "moot"...so long as this attitude prevails, so too will the reputation of foreign teachers. These jobs are temporary for most, teachers and employers alike treat eachother like the temp workers/employees they/we are. I sense your idealism--but if you look at it realistically...you know what Im saying. What's right and what's true arent always the same thing.

You ask, Why perpetuate it just because "everyone is doing it"?--well, because, since nobody has given me a story yet, not everybody is doing it. I'm just looking at my options (never did say I "was" going to do it Gimpaluficus), just as employers are looking at theirs.

Im only speaking from my particular Eikaiwa situation, so (to you others)please dont post about how "thats not true here in Nagoya/Shizuoka/any other part youre from".

[Wolf]

ChotoHen,

If I were you, I'd show loyalty to any company that offered good working conditions. It's possible to sour an otherwise decent employer. There are employers who make efforts to accomodate both their students and teachers, and they deserve teachers comitted to at least carrying out their contracts (barring the unexpected.)

My future employer made it a point to ask about if I had ever ened a contract early, and I was able to honestly answer "only at NOVA." Non EFL industries might not care, but continually jumping ship will make for an odd resume over time.

I'm not talking about bootlicking, but it shouldn't be too much to ask for a teacher to considerately perform the duties that they are paid for. To me that's "company loyalty" EFL style.

The larger, crappy employers will have to put up with high turnovers until they are good places to work for. But for the decent schools that remain, I'd recommend the more responsible approach.

[ChotoHen]

No need for the guilt trip. I agree. But the fact remains.