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Gamajorba
Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 357
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 Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| bigdurian wrote: |
| For UK people I would recommend Harley Medical in Harley Street. From going for the medical to getting the visa couriered to my front door took 2 days. All I had to do was show them my degree and copy of the contract etc. I've noticed that for Americans and Canadians it seems to take forever. How long it takes to get an Iguana on arrival depends on the company and the S.A.F. |
Agreed! Although mine took a week, think it was something to do with the agency I used. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Ethnicity and Nationality also play a role in what offers you may get - and the salary offered. |
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nwtefl
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 148
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry, is this the ICEAT role that is advertised on Serious Teachers ? Says their salary is 13250 SAR , which is terrible. |
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Mysterious
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| nwtefl wrote: |
| Sorry, is this the ICEAT role that is advertised on Serious Teachers ? Says their salary is 13250 SAR , which is terrible. |
I think that is their base salary.
You would need to apply to see what you would get offered. There are people getting 16,000 for their salary (excluding housing and travel allowance) based on their experience and qualifications. |
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forumchi
Joined: 05 Nov 2014
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| I know it is controversial thing to say but is it not fair for non Muslims to be compensated for their lifestyle sacrifices? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| forumchi wrote: |
| I know it is controversial thing to say but is it not fair for non Muslims to be compensated for their lifestyle sacrifices? |
Unfair? Not when it's their personal, adult decision to accept the position "as is" and all the challenges---big and little---that can come with life/work in KSA. Besides, not everyone considers there to be lifestyle sacrifices, but rather, an adjustment to the culture. Personal choice. |
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forumchi
Joined: 05 Nov 2014
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| forumchi wrote: |
| I know it is controversial thing to say but is it not fair for non Muslims to be compensated for their lifestyle sacrifices? |
Unfair? Not when it's their personal, adult decision to accept the position "as is" and all the challenges---big and little---that can come with life/work in KSA. Besides, not everyone considers there to be lifestyle sacrifices, but rather, an adjustment to the culture. Personal choice. |
I think to attract the best talent Saudis don't mind going the extra mile even if it means paying a bit more for western non Muslim natives. If they are being reuminirated adequately it is totally justified. I don't see any disrimination in this. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| forumchi wrote: |
| I know it is controversial thing to say but is it not fair for non Muslims to be compensated for their lifestyle sacrifices? |
Unfair? Not when it's their personal, adult decision to accept the position "as is" and all the challenges---big and little---that can come with life/work in KSA. Besides, not everyone considers there to be lifestyle sacrifices, but rather, an adjustment to the culture. Personal choice. |
"Is it not fair" should not be read as having made a claim of "unfair".
As the poster said: controversial.
The market certainly does reflect that KSA's theocracy/culture maintains traditions unlike others. But "free" markets are a land of contrasts-- anyone can make an offer and anyone can accept or reject it. Non-Muslims with experience and education desired by a KSA employer certainly should negotiate by terms such as what personal freedoms they choose to sacrifice. As more Muslims gain experience and education that position will be lost.
I agree with both opinions and don't believe them to be exclusive. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| But "free" markets are a land of contrasts-- anyone can make an offer and anyone can accept or reject it. Non-Muslims with experience and education desired by a KSA employer certainly should negotiate by terms such as what personal freedoms they choose to sacrifice. As more Muslims gain experience and education that position will be lost. |
Yep, either accept the offer as is, try to negotiate (good luck with that), or reject it outright. This is about personal choice and not about religion; the better employers are more interested in applicants with the best TEFL qualifications and experience regardless of their religious beliefs. Besides, there are many well-qualified Muslims as well as non-Muslims with relevant MAs and experience (myself included) who manage(d) just fine without feeling like there were some sort of major "sacrifices" made (whatever those are supposed to be). Employers cover the teacher's essential life/work needs (e.g., accommodation, medical care, transportation, salary per qualifications, roundtrip airfare, etc.) --- no one is having to pitch a tent under a bridge or out in the desert and scavenge in garbage dumps or hunt scorpions for their meals. But frankly, your "pay-for-relinquishing-personal-freedoms" argument really should be made for single female expats getting paid a lot more than single men. 
I started a thread on this topic if you want to join in: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=111239 |
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nwtefl
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 148
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| How long can it take to hear back from these places as regards applications ? I've applied to a few places in Saudi over the past fortnight - both direct and indirect and heard nothing back. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| buravirgil wrote: |
| But "free" markets are a land of contrasts-- anyone can make an offer and anyone can accept or reject it. Non-Muslims with experience and education desired by a KSA employer certainly should negotiate by terms such as what personal freedoms they choose to sacrifice. As more Muslims gain experience and education that position will be lost. |
Yep, either accept the offer as is, try to negotiate (good luck with that), or reject it outright. This is about personal choice and not about religion; the better employers are more interested in applicants with the best TEFL qualifications and experience regardless of their religious beliefs. Besides, there are many well-qualified Muslims as well as non-Muslims with relevant MAs and experience (myself included) who manage(d) just fine without feeling like there were some sort of major "sacrifices" made (whatever those are supposed to be). Employers cover the teacher's essential life/work needs (e.g., accommodation, medical care, transportation, salary per qualifications, roundtrip airfare, etc.) --- no one is having to pitch a tent under a bridge or out in the desert and scavenge in garbage dumps or hunt scorpions for their meals. But frankly, your "pay-for-relinquishing-personal-freedoms" argument really should be made for single female expats getting paid a lot more than single men.
I started a thread on this topic if you want to join in: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=111239 |
I avoid quoting entire replies, but it might serve me here.
Citing accommodation (largely guarded compounds) and air travel to and from a country in which tourist visas are denied (save religious pilgrims) and permission is required from one's sponsor (employer/kafala) to leave said country as evidence the essential needs of a guest worker are met is a better example of hyperbole than scorpions and bridges. Were "what this is about" the matter you are poorly asserting, so much straw would not be needed.
Equally, citing what single expat women experience as more deserving of any "hardship" pay reduces a serious matter to a contest and is a contradiction. Guest workers laboring in construction and domestic service are killed outright, some even by the state, as legal precepts (Sharia) in regard to testimony are fraught with assignment rather than evidentiary procedure. Obviously, the prohibitions of a theocracy present problems for non-Muslim guest workers that pay-scales already reflect-- this is what was nonsensical about forumchi's post and your parsing of it is flawed.
As in another thread, you have conflated the responses of two posters with a dismissive use of the second-person plural. My "argument" is not forumchi's and theirs is not mine and such use of "you" is not a decorum.
Given forumchi's comment was off-topic and your response opened a de-rail (my earlier response extends), I recognize and agree opening a thread on the general discussion board as appropriate, but its framing is as dismissive in tone and merely a false dilemma. So beyond what comments I've made here, I'll not respond further. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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It's simply the old fun places to go to = low pay; not fun places to go = higher pay.
There may be a few exceptions, but not many.
Supply and demand.
Regards,
John |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| nwtefl wrote: |
| How long can it take to hear back from these places as regards applications ? I've applied to a few places in Saudi over the past fortnight - both direct and indirect and heard nothing back. |
There are current job ads out, so give it a few more business days before sending off an email for status update. Employers are probably processing departing teachers (on final exit and those leaving on holiday) as well as new employees who applied a couple of months ago. Recruiters and employers will continue to work during Ramadan. |
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honestadviser
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I worked for ICEAT 2 years ago at KSU, they were really bad then, the only positive thing i can say about ICEAT is, they paid me on time. Apart from that, Iceat are one of the worst companies that I worked for.
Also I heard from a reliable source that ICEAT haven't changed since, "iCheat + iSteal + iLie = ICEAT".
From the beginning its all nice and smooth with ICEAT, but once they are done with you, you are just a number..... Be warned.
James
Former ICEAT employee |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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It's horrid so they pay you.
If it were nice, you would pay them. |
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