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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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 Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| weigookin74 wrote: |
| I'm just saying that things in Korea have gotten tougher than before. |
Where's your evidence? Unlike Korea or Japan, the majority of jobs in China either require or prefer some sort of TEFL training, or provide it as stated in their ads. Of the jobs I looked at, only 1 out of 14 doesn't. While schools in desperation may hire those without the advertised minimal req's, China's are much higher than Korea's or Japan's.
Could we attribute this mainly to cultural differences that set the Chinese apart from Japanese and Koreans? On a per-capita basis, aren't the Chinese far more likely to pursue higher education in English-speaking countries than their Japanese or Korean counterparts ever did? I recall Taiwanese teens attending senior high in my small town in the '70s. Unlike previous waves of (Chinese) immigrants that settled in ethnically homogenous areas, Chinese mainlanders in Canada don't. It doesn't seem language proficiency entirely explains why.
That's why I believe there may be an untapped market for higher-quality (minimal CELTA equivalent) teaching in China but it requires top-down, infrastructural change, not the bottom up approach of training CELTA grads for positions with little or no professional support. Without industry leadership setting and maintaining standards of professionalism, there's little point in even having such qual's in China.
If there's any hope, it's that at least Chinese employers perceive value in a TEFL. If the success of Vietnam's ILA (language school and CELTA/Delta provider) is any indicator, it may provide a model for similar infrastructural change in China. The fact Language Link is willing to accept a CELTA grad as Academic Manager with "at least 2 - 3 years relevant teaching experience, with some supervisory experience preferred", underscores my point. They at least have a preference, knowing of course that any Delta qual'd candidates in China are few and far between. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| I say form a TEFL soviet and assume control of all language schools, and then declare a Five-Year Plan to help China catch up with the rest of the EFL world. Nothing more top down than that for improving infrastructure. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I say form a TEFL soviet and assume control of all language schools, and then declare a Five-Year Plan to help China catch up with the rest of the EFL world. Nothing more top down than that for improving infrastructure. |
Sasha Comrade, I agree! Come to China and let's create the TEFL soviet (lower case s there of course) to serve the people...and then let's sing The Internationale together!
Yours in Comradeship,
fat_chris |
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FreakingTea
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| fat_chris wrote: |
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I say form a TEFL soviet and assume control of all language schools, and then declare a Five-Year Plan to help China catch up with the rest of the EFL world. Nothing more top down than that for improving infrastructure. |
Sasha Comrade, I agree! Come to China and let's create the TEFL soviet (lower case s there of course) to serve the people...and then let's sing The Internationale together!
Yours in Comradeship,
fat_chris |
This is my kind of thread! All power to the soviets! |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| FreakingTea wrote: |
| This is my kind of thread! All power to the soviets! |
Dear Comrade FreakingTea,
I gotta say, I am a fan of the Red Flag limousine.
To the soviets!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| FreakingTea wrote: |
| fat_chris wrote: |
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I say form a TEFL soviet and assume control of all language schools, and then declare a Five-Year Plan to help China catch up with the rest of the EFL world. Nothing more top down than that for improving infrastructure. |
Sasha Comrade, I agree! Come to China and let's create the TEFL soviet (lower case s there of course) to serve the people...and then let's sing The Internationale together!
Yours in Comradeship,
fat_chris |
This is my kind of thread! All power to the soviets! |
TEFL'ers of the World UNITE! |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| ...help China catch up with the rest of the EFL world." |
What are you talking about? According to this 2012 survey, Russia's in the same 'low proficiency' category, ranking just barely above Taiwan, China and Vietnam while Japan and Korea, despite their apparent disregard for TEFL cert's, actually score higher than France, Italy or Hong Kong.
While the survey methods and accuracy are questionable, the overall results aren't. As the Economist sees it:
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Several factors correlate with English ability. Wealthy countries do better overall. But smaller wealthy countries do better still: the larger the number of speakers of a country's main language, the worse that country tends to be at English. This is one reason Scandinavians do so well: what use is Swedish outside Sweden? It may also explain why Spain was the worst performer in western Europe, and why Latin America was the worst-performing region: Spanish's role as an international language in a big region dampens incentives to learn English.
Export dependency is another correlate with English. Countries that export more are better at English (though it's not clear which factor causes which). Malaysia, the best English-performer in Asia, is also the sixth-most export-dependent country in the world. |
As alvays, comrrrades, money talks! And ees steell speakeen Engaleesh!  |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I gotta say, I am a fan of the Red Flag limousine. |
FAW #1 ChangChun |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| LongShiKong wrote: |
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| ...help China catch up with the rest of the EFL world." |
What are you talking about? According to this 2012 survey, Russia's in the same 'low proficiency' category, ranking just barely above Taiwan, China and Vietnam while Japan and Korea, despite their apparent disregard for TEFL cert's, actually score higher than France, Italy or Hong Kong.
While the survey methods and accuracy are questionable, the overall results aren't. As the Economist sees it:
| Quote: |
Several factors correlate with English ability. Wealthy countries do better overall. But smaller wealthy countries do better still: the larger the number of speakers of a country's main language, the worse that country tends to be at English. This is one reason Scandinavians do so well: what use is Swedish outside Sweden? It may also explain why Spain was the worst performer in western Europe, and why Latin America was the worst-performing region: Spanish's role as an international language in a big region dampens incentives to learn English.
Export dependency is another correlate with English. Countries that export more are better at English (though it's not clear which factor causes which). Malaysia, the best English-performer in Asia, is also the sixth-most export-dependent country in the world. |
As alvays, comrrrades, money talks! And ees steell speakeen Engaleesh! |
Yet again, the same tired survey, pushing the same fallacious view that the Chinese are as proficient learners of English as the Russians. Twaddle, obviously.
In any case, I was referring to TEFLers. You'll find far better trained teachers, both native and non-native, outside China. Just look at the various boards on this forum for a quick comparison. Not too many teachers in China with a basic cert, never mind a diploma or masters.
But moving back to learners themselves, have a look at an IELTS comparison of results by region. You'll see that Russia scores a whole band higher than most of the countries in your region. And bear in mind that there are usually many Russian test-takers who do next to no preparation for the test, and still score respectably. In addition plenty of IELTS examiners are Russians themselves, having scored straight nines in their own tests so as to be able to train up as examiners. I wonder how many Chinese learners go on to do that.
That's what I am talking about. China is much farther down the EFL rankings than you seem to be prepared to acknowledge. But do not despair, help is at hand. Russia can send technical advisors to your location to assist you in sovietising your school system, and so doing, make a Great Leap forward. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| That's what I am talking about. China is much farther down the EFL rankings than you seem to be prepared to acknowledge. But do not despair, help is at hand. Russia can send technical advisors to your location to assist you in sovietising your school system, and so doing, make a Great Leap forward. |
Comrade Sasha,
The proletariat of the People's Republic of China welcomes the great technical advisors to this country. Together let's complete a sound sovietisation of the school system and serve the people as one. A true Great Leap forward shall be attained in all its glory!
Then onward to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea!
Respectfully,
Comrade fat_chris |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Dear respected comrade Fat Chris
We have several Tupelovs standing by on the runway, just loaded to the gills with technical advice. They can be dispatched at a moment's notice. The first phase of operation will be to round up bourgeois elements and potential wreckers and saboteurs. Here some local knowledge of terrain will be helpful, so as to locate sites for re-education camps to rehabilitate said offenders.
Just give the word, and we can sign a treaty of everlasting friendship between our fraternal nations. I propose a toast to a Sino-Soviet alliance!! Ura!
With Communist greetings
Sasha |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Dear Esteemed Comrade Sasha,
Today is sports day and the honourable youth are pursuing athletic acheivements in full glory in the name of the great sovietisation of TEFL for Greater East Eurasia.
How about Monday? We can take the weekend to get the runways ready for the terrific Tupelovs and spend a few minutes rounding up the Capitalist Roaders and the bourgeois elements and saboteurs.
Monday, November 4th, 9am--we shall await the great arrival of the wonderful Tupelovs. Together success shall be attained for a full glorious TEFL society! We shall celebrate the technical expertise of our great TEFL advisors from Mother Russia!
Respectfully,
Comrade fat_chris |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Dear respected Comrade Fat Chris
Monday is Day of People's Unity, and November 7 is the Day of the Great October Socialist Revolution. How about November 9? It will take a day to recover from the festivities. Then shall we stride arm in arm into victory! Victory over the wretched Piggie classes that poison EFL in East Asia! Ura!!
With Communist greetings
Sasha |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Dear respected Comrade Fat Chris
Monday is Day of People's Unity, and November 7 is the Day of the Great October Socialist Revolution. How about November 9? It will take a day to recover from the festivities. Then shall we stride arm in arm into victory! Victory over the wretched Piggie classes that poison EFL in East Asia! Ura!!
With Communist greetings
Sasha |
Dear Esteemed Comrade Sasha,
Hmm... November 9th is Saturday, the day of the Great Hangover. It may be difficult to round up the Capitalist Roaders and saboteurs then. We must overcome these obstacles to victory though! We must have a new Long March to glorious TEFL revolution!
Hmm, this sovietisation is not as easy as it sounds but we must triumph over the scheduling challenges that have been set upon us by the filthy landlords and businessmen! May we find love for the great TEFL sovietisation in our hearts to push us through in the moment of great difficulty.
Respectfully,
Comrade fat_chris |
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damn_my_eyes
Joined: 13 Jul 2013
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| FreakingTea wrote: |
| fat_chris wrote: |
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I say form a TEFL soviet and assume control of all language schools, and then declare a Five-Year Plan to help China catch up with the rest of the EFL world. Nothing more top down than that for improving infrastructure. |
Sasha Comrade, I agree! Come to China and let's create the TEFL soviet (lower case s there of course) to serve the people...and then let's sing The Internationale together!
Yours in Comradeship,
fat_chris |
This is my kind of thread! All power to the soviets! |
TEFL'ers of the World UNITE! |
Unless you're gay or black  |
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