| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| nomad soul wrote: |
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| If there is such a proliferation of MA degrees of which some of them may be questionable in quality then this has an effect all round - and not just for the students. Employers will start becoming more picky (and we have already seen the trend in many Gulf countries to not accept online degrees). |
What do you mean by "questionable" quality given that 1) most Saudi employers want to see transcripts upon application; 2) the SACM scrutinizes the job candidate's academic documents up the wazoo; and 3) these are the same accredited universities (and possibly degree programs) Saudi students attend.
| and currentaffairs wrote: |
With the TEFL certs it has been commonplace for employers to ask for 120 hours/6 hours observed teaching. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar happening with MA degrees.
I think ultimately the people at the top of the queue will be teachers with verifiable teaching experience at the university level and whatever bits of paper they possess. |
Where are you basing your assumption that none of these teachers has a teaching qualification? Many TEFL-related MA holders complete a CELTA or equivalent cert prior to their grad degree coursework, while others do so immediately following graduation or in lieu of their summer university studies. The exceptions are teachers with a k-12 teaching license/certification or, in my case, a semester-long ESOL practical component as a requirement of the degree program. Either way, Saudi (direct-hire) employers expect to see confirmation of at least 120 hours of supervised and observed teaching practice. |
Considering questionable quality means asking questions such as: where was the degree attained? How many practical modules based on teaching methodology and classroom practice are there? How much observed teaching is included? It doesn't really matter whether or not a person has done a CELTA before as we are concerned with the MA program itself.
As an example, you know exactly what you are getting with a DELTA, as the modules include classroom-based assessment. This isn't the case with MA in TESOL degrees, and so then the employer has to look at the modules included.
At the end of the day, it is up to employers to decide what is acceptable or not and not us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| currentaffairs wrote: |
Considering questionable quality means asking questions such as: where was the degree attained? How many practical modules based on teaching methodology and classroom practice are there? How much observed teaching is included? It doesn't really matter whether or not a person has done a CELTA before as we are concerned with the MA program itself.
At the end of the day, it is up to employers to decide what is acceptable or not and not us. |
Exactly... from what I have seen over the years is that they have gone from taking an MA in anything (Criminal Justice, Political Science, Art History) to at least asking that it be relevant to teaching EFL. (either Applied Linguistics or TESOL/TEFL)
As long as it was certified from your home country as an accredited college/university, they accept it. I wasn't asked anything about mine... by any of my 4 employers. Granted it was from a known institution (AUC) but also I don't know anyone who was asked anything about their degree. It has no practical segment at all, just the usual methodology courses.
Nor have I heard of any teacher with a related MA and a few years of related teaching experience not be hired because their MA didn't have a practical element. While I would look for such if I was hiring, I haven't encountered any Gulf employers who do so when it comes down to actual hires.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| Considering questionable quality means asking questions such as: where was the degree attained? How many practical modules based on teaching methodology and classroom practice are there? How much observed teaching is included? It doesn't really matter whether or not a person has done a CELTA before as we are concerned with the MA program itself. |
Which doesn't seem to be at issue if the TEFL-related MA was completed at an accredited university. As for the CELTA, Delta, SIT TESOL, etc., I doubt job seekers leave that key info off their CV. I even state on mine that my MAT included a 135-hour ESOL practicum so that prospective employers won't have to wonder if I had received proper teacher training. This never came up in any of the in-person interviews I had at TESOL Arabia---the hiring managers essentially asked me basic info about teaching and focused on elements of my teaching experience and projects I'd worked on.
By the way, a requirement of the Delta would rule out many American and Saudi MA TESOL holders who had completed their degrees in the US; only two states (out of 50) have a center that offers it. Anyway, it's currently not indicated as a requirement on job ads since the Saudi Ministry of Education is more concerned about academic degrees, and I doubt it will be in the future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nomad soul wrote: |
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| Considering questionable quality means asking questions such as: where was the degree attained? How many practical modules based on teaching methodology and classroom practice are there? How much observed teaching is included? It doesn't really matter whether or not a person has done a CELTA before as we are concerned with the MA program itself. |
Which doesn't seem to be at issue if the TEFL-related MA was completed at an accredited university. As for the CELTA, Delta, SIT TESOL, etc., I doubt job seekers leave that key info off their CV. I even state on mine that my MAT included a 135-hour ESOL practicum so that prospective employers won't have to wonder if I had received proper teacher training. This never came up in any of the in-person interviews I had at TESOL Arabia---the hiring managers essentially asked me basic info about teaching and focused on elements of my teaching experience and projects I'd worked on.
By the way, a requirement of the Delta would rule out many American and Saudi MA TESOL holders who had completed their degrees in the US; only two states (out of 50) have a center that offers it. Anyway, it's currently not indicated as a requirement on job ads since the Saudi Ministry of Education is more concerned about academic degrees, and I doubt it will be in the future. |
We talked about this before and a number of MA in TESOL programs have no classroom observations and a minimal or zero amount of modules on teaching methodology. I remember you said that your program wasn't like this.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| We talked about this before and a number of MA in TESOL programs have no classroom observations and a minimal or zero amount of modules on teaching methodology. I remember you said that your program wasn't like this.. |
It was in this thread: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=109210
But I think we're in agreement that higher qualifications will be more in demand. Plus, I suspect teachers will also need to have techie skills for teaching as well as experience in an ESP domain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Raul739
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 21
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Golden Age is over |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttxor1
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119
|
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| currentaffairs wrote: |
As an example, you know exactly what you are getting with a DELTA, as the modules include classroom-based assessment. |
Module -- singular not plural (as you suggest above).
Only Module 2 includes classroom based assessment. Module 1 is a written exam and Module 3 is a written paper. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttxor1
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119
|
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Nor have I heard of any teacher with a related MA and a few years of related teaching experience not be hired because their MA didn't have a practical element. While I would look for such if I was hiring, I haven't encountered any Gulf employers who do so when it comes down to actual hires.
VS |
Ditto. My related MA didn't have a practical element, yet I have been offered jobs in the USA, UAE, Oman and in Saudi Arabia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttxor1
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119
|
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| currentaffairs wrote: |
We talked about this before and a number of MA in TESOL programs have no classroom observations and a minimal or zero amount of modules on teaching methodology. |
currentaffairs, this simply isn't true. In the US, MAs in TESOL/Applied Linguistics, MATs with an ESL emphasis and MEds in TESOL usually include observed teaching as a part of the program. Courses on teaching methodology are also standard. Check out:
https://www.tesol.org/enhance-your-career/career-development/beginning-your-career/common-qualifications-for-english-language-teachers
Not only this, but in the US those who have done a BA in Education will have done classroom observations.
In the UK, programs with a practical element are rarer. But I will strongly take issue with anyone who suggests that they are of inferior quality because of the lack of a practical element. I did my related MA in the UK, but have been offered jobs with very competitive salaries/benefit packages in N.America, the Gulf, and in Asia. I think if an applicant has a few years of related experience in a variety of contexts (ESP, Exam classes, General English with serious teens or Adult learners) and with students with varying proficiency levels and reasons for learning English, they will be a strong candidate for employment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttxor1
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119
|
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| currentaffairs wrote: |
Teachers with PGCEs and DELTAs will often have more training in the classroom rather than an overly theoretical background.
|
You're wrong again. The DELTA only requires 2 months of classroom training (Module 2). A BA or an MA in a related field will include at least a semester's worth of classroom observations in the US, probably more. Are you allergic to facts? Doesn't theory inform practice? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ttxor1 wrote: |
| The DELTA only requires 2 months of classroom training (Module 2). A BA or an MA in a related field will include at least a semester's worth of classroom observations in the US, probably more. |
Agreed. And not surprising, my Saudi colleagues (including my co-teacher) with MA TESOLs from the US had completed at least one semester-long practicum as a part of their degree program. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BajaLaJaula
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 267
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:53 pm Post subject: who wants to go there any more? |
|
|
Soon it will be for backpackers and religious types. The salaries for most English teaching jobs are paying less than similar jobs in the Far East. The difference of course is that most would agree that living in Far East is a bit more enjoyable than having to live in Sawdy.
Exceptions for those who are driven by religious needs and those who just want to teach and go back to their compound to watch TV and order Take-out.
Living in Sawdy can be very stressful. The feeling of being the unwanted hired help (slave) is becoming more and more palpable.
Foreigners are the reason for all the crime, pollution, and immoral behavior in the Magic Kingdom. Do not fret, by the year 2030 the country will be fully Sawdyized and they will finally be able to get rid of all those troublesome foreigners.
Ya Rafiq. Jeeb chai. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
siologen
Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: re:hmmmmm |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The salaries for most English teaching jobs are paying less than similar jobs in the Far East. The difference of course is that most would agree that living in Far East is a bit more enjoyable than having to live in Sawdy. |
I keep hearing of these high paying jobs in the far east, yet I have yet to meet anyone who is actually employed at one of them. Thailand does not pay very well for a teacher, nor does Taiwan (and you need your own flat in Taiwan, I think). China has always paid low and inflation has made things more expensive there, especially in the bigger cities, food prices and rent has gone up. I agree about the living part, just not the paying less part, even a big international school in China only paid something like 2000-2,500 usd per month, and I think you had to find your own flat with an allowance as well....also you may have to pay tax. I met more than one teacher from the far east who told me Oman paid far better....folks with MA's et al too!!! Not meaning to disagree personally, just my ha'penny......   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Those who want to consider a job in China or elsewhere in that part of the world should probably be reading that section of Dave's. There you will find teachers on the ground who can answer that question.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Just to chip in, my international school in Beijing gives me $2000 for housing and over $4500 in salary, plus bonuses that up like 15% bonus after a year and 3 1/2 months paid vacation. I've never seen any job advertised in Saudi that is so much more than that I had to double take and apply! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
