|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| joe30 wrote: |
| Sounds like there might be a high paying position out there for me too if I look hard for it. |
Yep, it's at the end of the rainbow, next to the pot o' gold. Just follow the Yellow Brick Road.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joe30 wrote: |
Well I'd need to get PR first, which would require 8 years work.
Not sure I'd be too comfortable having a 100% freelance income like yourself tbh though. I'm more happy with a guaranteed paycheck coming in.
|
It's 7 years for PR. Alternatively, some teachers marry locals after a few years here and thus receive their dependency visa which effectively gives the same working freedoms as PR. In any case, many many teachers take on private students on the side before getting PR. It's technically illegal but I've never heard of anyone getting into trouble for it and it's very widespread.
In terms of not wanting 100% freelance income, plenty of teachers decide to split their time between a school / centre and teaching privately. That way a portion of their income is still guaranteed. An example of a guy who does this well works part-time at a local school and then afterwards teaches small groups of private students. His school work pays him approx 35K / month and he earns around 55K / month from his private students. So his effective income is superior to both the EDB NET scheme and most international school positions while he maintains a good deal of scheduling flexibility and (for the most part) is his own boss.
Anyways, it sounds like I'm trying to plug this type of work but I'm not, realistically everything has it's pros and cons. I'm just trying to clear up a few misconceptions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:06 pm Post subject: re: law |
|
|
Now let's call a spade a spade.
If someone is mr coal miner from Doncaster, then they work down the pits.
If someone is a qualified lawyer from a wealthy southern fairy family, then they owe it to that posh region of England (London is a seperate country imo...as they voted pro EU!) to stay in that region, and practice law or teach law there, and not in a country with no rule of law, none at all.
Ultimately, we can sugarcoat things, but you are denying those who need the TEFL work, the work. Real teachers and lawyers should stay in the UK, and leave TEFL to those who need it eh, dui bu dui? Of course if you want to teach english despite being a lawyer, then more power to you, I still think you could have a good life in the UK without the need to go to China, but again, each to their own. Good luck again in asia..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| but you are denying those who need the TEFL work, the work. Real teachers and lawyers should stay in the UK, and leave TEFL to those who need it eh, dui bu dui? |
But you are assuming that all TEFL jobs can be filled by the minimally/unqualified. There is a very definite sector of jobs in the field that really require upper level quals (fewer of these in Asia, true).
Not defending the cross-over lawyers (I would be highly unlikely to hire a lawyer without creds directly relevant to teaching language) but 'real' teachers who have qualifications related to language teaching are needed to fill quite a few real jobs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: re: a valid point |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But you are assuming that all TEFL jobs can be filled by the minimally/unqualified. |
But as an american guy I knew once said: "When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me".
Now I wasn't trying to make an ass (arse) out of you, but I do like to play devils advocate.
Let's face it, TEFL in China is not rocket science, dear boy, now am I right or am I right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Let's face it, TEFL in China is not rocket science, dear boy, now am I right or am I right? |
Gawd. I've never been there, so will have to accept your opinion as being more directly informed than mine.
However, I work with a program that sends teachers to China on 1-year contracts. It's true that the program combines field-specific content work with English, so not pure TEFL. No, it ain't rocket science, but the teachers required do in fact need actual education credentials and experience related to language teaching in addition to their content quals.
So to my direct knowledge, it's not all working in unstructured and uncritical settings, even today, and it is likely that the requirement for qualifications will strengthen across the future as they have in other TEFL job markets.
This is very relevant to the (young) OP in this thread, who is hoping for reasonable gigs in at least 2nd. tier international schools! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 497
Location: Pearl River Delta
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| joe30 wrote: |
Well I'd certainly be OK working a lot of hours for the kind of cash ESF were offering! Just a question of whether I'd have a chance without 2 years UK experience.
|
It's true that I know one person who graduated with a BEd (Hons) from a top-flight UK university who went straight into an ESF job, but she had done the degree at the encouragement of the school staff who had watched her working as a parent-volunteer over the previous 6 years and seen that she had a natural talent for teaching.
The other way you might possibly luck out to join a top drawer school straight from uni is to do your education degree in Germany, in German ... new grads are required to teach wherever they're posted for 2 years after gaining QTS, and because GSIS HK is classed as a "state school abroad" they sometimes fill vacancies not already taken up by PRs and dependents.
Seriously, that's it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jmbf wrote: |
It's 7 years for PR. Alternatively, some teachers marry locals after a few years here and thus receive their dependency visa which effectively gives the same working freedoms as PR. In any case, many many teachers take on private students on the side before getting PR. It's technically illegal but I've never heard of anyone getting into trouble for it and it's very widespread.
In terms of not wanting 100% freelance income, plenty of teachers decide to split their time between a school / centre and teaching privately. That way a portion of their income is still guaranteed. An example of a guy who does this well works part-time at a local school and then afterwards teaches small groups of private students. His school work pays him approx 35K / month and he earns around 55K / month from his private students. So his effective income is superior to both the EDB NET scheme and most international school positions while he maintains a good deal of scheduling flexibility and (for the most part) is his own boss.
Anyways, it sounds like I'm trying to plug this type of work but I'm not, realistically everything has it's pros and cons. I'm just trying to clear up a few misconceptions. |
I was planning to try get in with ESF or an international school, do my 8 (or 7) years, get the PR, at which point I'll be pretty high up the payscale. Then if I decided I wanted even more money, I could work for the British Council on a weekday day or something, maybe do a few evenings after school etc.
To be fair though, if I got high up the scale of the ESF or NET scheme, that's enough money for me. I doubt I'd feel the need to try and get more since I'd be getting very well paid from the first job.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Yep, it's at the end of the rainbow, next to the pot o' gold. Just follow the Yellow Brick Road. |
Well someone has posted right here that he was able to get 25,000RMB a month even without a teaching licence. Seen quite a few people on the China board without PGCE's who seem to be making decent coin. Why exactly would it be beyond me to do the same? 
| spiral78 wrote: |
So to my direct knowledge, it's not all working in unstructured and uncritical settings, even today, and it is likely that the requirement for qualifications will strengthen across the future as they have in other TEFL job markets.
This is very relevant to the (young) OP in this thread, who is hoping for reasonable gigs in at least 2nd. tier international schools! |
Well qualifications wise I think I should be fine. Going to get the PGCE then immediately start a distance learning MA after it, so 2 years post PGCE I'll have an MA related to education too (likely in leadership as that's the direction I'd like to go in the end). Yeah the online component means it wouldn't be accepted in the Middle East but those countries are bottom of my list anyway.
It'd really only be the 2 years home country experience I'm 'missing'. I doubt everyone at these tier 1 or tier 2 schools has a 'perfect' CV following the 'advised' route. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| joe30 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Yep, it's at the end of the rainbow, next to the pot o' gold. Just follow the Yellow Brick Road. |
Well someone has posted right here that he was able to get 25,000RMB a month even without a teaching licence. Seen quite a few people on the China board without PGCE's who seem to be making decent coin. Why exactly would it be beyond me to do the same? |
Unless those touting their big salaries name the specific school and teaching qualifications/requirements, take such claims with a grain of salt. Besides, quite a few posters state they're teaching on the side to earn extra income. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: re: big old grain o' salt... |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Well someone has posted right here that he was able to get 25,000RMB a month even without a teaching licence |
Going to side with nomad soul here. China does not pay all that well. They may have meant 20,000 a month at one place, and then 5,000 a month from private students, teaching part time somewhere, or something like that. I reckon you would need an MA & Experience to attain that in China, not saying it could not be done, but just that it seems you would need the MA and experience and be prepared to sacrifice any free time you may hope to have.Just my take... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here I go, you've called me out.
Name of school Bo Ai International School
Place - Xi'an, Shaanxi China.
I know plenty of guys making 22+ with not the best of degrees, especially if you are willing to work not in SZ,GZ,BJ or SH, i.e. Taiyuan, Wuhan etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LarssonCrew wrote: |
Here I go, you've called me out.
Name of school Bo Ai International School
Place - Xi'an, Shaanxi China.
I know plenty of guys making 22+ with not the best of degrees, especially if you are willing to work not in SZ,GZ,BJ or SH, i.e. Taiyuan, Wuhan etc. |
Granted this is an old post (2005), but this poster http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=29821 says s/he was getting 3,000 a month at the above mentioned school, with free room/board. Could salaries have gone from 3,000 to 22,000 in 10 years or was this guy simply being taken advantage of? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: re: scam outfit...possible |
|
|
| I also think there is a possible link to a scam recruiter in Beijing that goes by the same name. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
travelbuguk
Joined: 02 Nov 2010
Posts: 29
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hello. I just wondered why you have chosen HK in particular? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Probably for one of the reasons listed in another thread. Namely, Hong Kong offers the best of both worlds, the opportunity to explore what the East has to offer while still enjoying the comforts of the West. Safety, convenience, earning potential and demand are all top notch. Ultra fast and uncensored internet access is cheap and widely available. Cost of living is high but rents have been coming down recently and this trend looks to continue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
