| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
M@tt
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 473
Location: here and there
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
i don't think of sexuality and race as the same type of topic. i wonder how many people do. i'm also having trouble thinking of 'other such topics' that will become passe in a few generations. if they do somehow pass off the radar, new issues that divide people will come up and take their place.
i think one of the main problems with this debate is that people don't make enough disctinction between the 'condition' or involuntary part of sexuality, and the decision to live out your sexuality. if you're bothered by some kind of behavior isn't it easier to accept the person when his identity is not equated with behavior? one could say "i like you but not this behavior" pretty easily.
i'm wondering if separating internal sexuality from exteranl behavior wouldn't help in many cases. then you can focus on respecting people as people and focus on behavior, not people, when you end up debating. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
saraswati
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 200
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| M@tt wrote: |
| i don't think of sexuality and race as the same type of topic. i wonder how many people do. |
They are both topics that create debate. There will come a time, I hope, when neither lead to discrimination. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MikeySaid
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 509
Location: Torreon, Mexico
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saraswati wrote: |
| They are both topics that create debate. There will come a time, I hope, when neither lead to discrimination. |
Yeah... right after the Chinese take over the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
M@tt
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 473
Location: here and there
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| it's human nature to discriminate. no amount of education will ever change that. i think we're better off worrying about when/how/why we make certain discriminations than whether we ever discriminate. race might be a perfectly acceptable area of discrimination if you're thinking about your future spouse. behavior (including sexual behavior) would be a good point of discrimination if you're choosing the type of people you want to spend your free time with. maybe neither of them is relevant when choosing an english teacher. but to say people should NEVER discriminate based on those things is not only completely unrealistic, it's wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MikeySaid
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 509
Location: Torreon, Mexico
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| M@tt wrote: |
| race might be a perfectly acceptable area of discrimination if you're thinking about your future spouse. |
What the hell? So it's acceptable to say "I would never marry a black woman" but not acceptable to say "No blacks allowed" at a restaurant? Seems like a slippery slope to me.
How is it perfectly acceptable to discriminate against an entire "race" of people when thinking about your future spouse?
You got some 'splainin to do, Lucy.
Note: Culture might be a better reason for discrimination in the process of choosing a marriage partner. The only reason I can think of for using "race" as a reason would be... bigotry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
M@tt
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 473
Location: here and there
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| physical discrimination as a matter of personal taste. how about "i am not sexually attracted to (insert skin color here)"? i've been told by people of various races that they're not attracted to white people and i'm not the least bit offended by it. it's just one more preference you might have when choosing who you will be sleeping with for the rest of your life. can you imagine demanding that they find white people physically attractive because not to do so is discrimination? what if i also demanded that they find my freckles attractive? the shape of my eyes and nose? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This thread has sufficiently wandered into the weird zone.....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wildnfree
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 134
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Yeah... right after the Chinese take over the world. |
Jajajaja...believe me, they will 
I do not 'act' stereotypically 'gay' , I just tend to be myself..which people take as straight. I don't always feel the need to announce my sexuality from the word go but sooner or later, when topics turn to love and romance...it is bound to come up. Prior to them knowing however, it can be hurtful when they make comments out of ignorance.
BTW, one of my best friends is a very heterosexual straight male...he talks about his love life, I talk about mine, but we do heaps of things together that our orientation doesnt even matter! That's the way it should always be...all you need to be is open-minded enough to let yourself make friends with people outside your usual circle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gordogringo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Tijuana
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
What splainin you want mikey?I would never marry a black woman.Or a gringa,either.Don't care for the culture,goals tend to be different,all around not my cup of tea.Does'nt mean bad.Just my preference.And if I seem too crazy just go to any major city in LA or Southeast Asia and see all the mixed couples.Mostly American guys and local ladies although occasionally the other way around.Maybe we are on to something.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saraswati wrote: |
It is HUGE to many gay people. Example...a close friend of mine in college came out his sophomore year. He is a Korean Catholic and comes from a family that expected him to have lots of babies. He faced being ostracized from most of his family but being honest and open was more important. As far as I'm concerned, he can "dance" all he likes.
By the way, he's a teacher and no, his sexuality is not a part of the curriculum. He has been asked but usually responds by asking the student to explain how his answer would be important.
There will come a time when sexuality, race and other such topics won't require "song and dance" but I think we're still generations away from that. |
Good for him. Though i'm not entirely convinced that gays need to put themselves through the whole coming out ordeal. It's not that surprising when someone you knew was gay anyway, 'comes out'. As I said before, gays are their own worst enemies.
| wildnfree wrote: |
| BTW, one of my best friends is a very heterosexual straight male...he talks about his love life, I talk about mine, but we do heaps of things together that our orientation doesnt even matter! That's the way it should always be...all you need to be is open-minded enough to let yourself make friends with people outside your usual circle. |
Finally, some sense.
A student told me there's going to be a gay beauty pageant in San Luis, the most close-minded state in Mexico--things are on the up... no pun intended. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
M@tt
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 473
Location: here and there
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| if by gay beauty pageant you mean "transvestite beauty pageant," there's one of the reasons gays have a hard time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: most of the worlds problems |
|
|
| Ben Round de Bloc wrote: |
Keep in mind that most of the problems in the world have been caused by men, yet you are attracted to them.  |
I think Tim wins for "best response" in this thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
periodista-masajista
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Texas, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: discrimination |
|
|
Well, this thread did turn out kind of strange, but not really badly, I guess. Funny that it ended up being a thread about how much personal info is too much personal info for the classroom, and why/why not...
I find the whole topic of anti-discriminatory hiring practices interesting...Ben RtB said he'd rather deal with an honestly discriminatory system than one that pretended to be anti-discriminatory that wasn't. I can see how on a certain level, knowing what the rules are is better than wondering whether the official or unofficial rules are the ones in effect.
For me, this is an example of my libertarian ideals clashing with my pro-justice ideals. It's semi-impossible to legislate people into behaving ethically, especially with something as nebulous as hiring practices. But, it seems lame for the government to do nothing when people are getting screwed over. I thought the LA Times article hit on an interesting point when one of the interviewees mentioned the lost productivity because talented/skilled people aren't allowed to work to the best of their potential because of discrimination.
I found it a big eye-opener when I first saw all the teaching ads in Mexico specifying young women only, having photos (!) be a part of the job application process, etc. All the "unfettered free market" types north of the border would do well to see this aspect of pure capitalism in action.
I agree with anti-discriminatory hiring practices being law, despite the myriad of complications that go along with such laws. It's real far from being a perfect solution, but in the final analysis, I suspect it's better than letting people freely exclude people of the "wrong" gender/age/color/etc.
Carry on... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wildnfree
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 134
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| if by gay beauty pageant you mean "transvestite beauty pageant," there's one of the reasons gays have a hard time. |
Well put.
Transvetites are whole seperate bunch altogether. I don't know what it is like to be a man trapped in a woman's body or vice versa. I do wish, however, people would stop lumping them under a huge umbrella term known as "gay". They have different issues ect.
In many peoples minds, transvestites = gay. It is like equating polygamy with being straight - they are seperate things; though the two groups may overlap in one very broad way, they are two distinct groups. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
