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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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 Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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companies going out of business, past employers unwilling to give these letters, or just too busy to care, etc.... what if you show up in KSA and dont have half of what you know you have, because you cant get the damn docs? Can they just tell you "We just wasted money on your airfare, and now we cant get the docs we need, so please fly out of KSA within 24 hours"?
what would be the procedure in this kind of case? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:38 am Post subject: |
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You would plummet to the bottom of the salary scale. Presumably you will have presented properly notarized degrees which should keep you from being bundled back onto the next plane back.
VS |
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Green Acres
Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Notarized copies of degrees....How about the originals? |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Green Acres wrote: |
| Notarized copies of degrees....How about the originals? |
Originals still have to be notarized...suposedly to verify that they are legit...not fake! |
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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| thx vs, I guess Ill just plummet right to the plum bottom in a purple plume of smoke, since my x-employers are nowhere to be found. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
| Green Acres wrote: |
| Notarized copies of degrees....How about the originals? |
Originals still have to be notarized...suposedly to verify that they are legit...not fake!
There seems to be a LOT of legalese being thrown around here and I think that people are getting themselves confused. I can only speak to the good ol' U.S. of A.
First, let's define these terms. This is from the Legal Secretary's Concise Dictionary (3rd Edition, Revised and Enlarged).
"notary public"- A person holding a notarial commission who attests or certifies documents to make them authentic; takes acknowledgments, affidavits, depositions, etc,
"attest"- To affirm to be true or genuine; to bear witness to.
A notary can only attest that a person appearing before him/her produced adequate positive identification (usually a pictured, government-issued document that identifies the person). S/he then inspects the document. If it looks authentic, then the notary will notarize a photocopy of the document using wording that the photocopy is a "true and correct" copy of the original.
Notaries are not expected to be document experts, but as s/he sees authentic documents on a, sometimes, daily basis, they usually know if it is more likely authentic or not. Notaries can and do turn down busness if they feel that their commision is being abused by a client. The original should never be touched with a stamp or imprinting device.
That being said, the notary must be a notary of the state of the degree-awarding institution. The reason for this is that every state's Secretary of State has an official record of the notary's signature. The notarized copy is then sent to the Secretary of State of the degree-awarding institution and, for a price, of course, an apostille is affixed to the notarized copy by the Office of the Secretary of State once the notary's official signature is verified by records. The apostilled document is then returned to the owner who, then, can send it to the U.S. Secretary of State Department to get the official U.S. okey-dokie from the U. S. Government which would then be accepted by the other government (save Syria, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, and, recently, I guess, Sudan). I don't know of a host country's cultural office's involvement in the process, but different strokes for different folks.
I am not contesting cmp45's post, I am simply stating what the procedure is in the U. S.
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NCTBA |
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Mr. Mead
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 29
Location: West Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Since this thread is clearly for ranting about KAU, I have a contribution. Are any other would-be KAU-ers out there having a hard time getting a reply from the ELI recruiting office? I've received several emails from the ELI head of recruitment every time they adjust their new payscale rubric and need info, but when I write them with a concern, my emails go unanswered. This is a bit of a red flag for an institution that is already mired in misunderstanding, as this thread reflects.
I need to know specifics of the job responsibilities, partly for planning/prep purposes, partly to protect against surprises that emerge after arriving (for example, the six day work week).
Has anyone else had better luck getting through to them? |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Mr. Mead
I can't write about the general situation at KAU - however, I can assure you that the problem mentioned below:
". . . . .but when I write them with a concern, my emails go unanswered."
is hardly unique to that institution in the Kingdom. In fact, having one's calls, e-mails, or letters ignored is pretty much par for the course Kingdom-wide.
Regards,
John |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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And par for the course, Gulf-wide.... and even Middle East-wide...
VS |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| I know both John and Veiled are spot on. After getting a phone call from two places in the Saudi Gulag, I've not heard a thing from either one, albeit I've emailed them several times with questions. They don't seem to give a rat's behind about my concerns, which, yes, is definitely a flag of red waving me to stop and back the heck out of here. |
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Mr. Mead
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 29
Location: West Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: |
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John, thank you for that priceless insight into my future employers. I'll be sure to pack powerful migraine medication..
To my great amusement, shortly after writing my post and reading the replies, I received a random email from another Saudi university I had applied to back in early February. It started off with an apology for the delay (so they are aware of this habit!), but the best part of all was that it wasn't even an offer, it was just an application form and 'invitation to apply' in response to a CV I'd sent them three months ago. If it takes that long to get out the application form, can you imagine how long any real concerns would require? Frightening. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Frightening ? I would have said "surprising". That you got a reply at all.
People really should not expect their future employers to play the game by familiar rules. Surprises from Day One - that is what to expect ! |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Dear All Past, Present and Future applicants to the Kingdom of Humanity:
It has been and always will be an honour to be offered a position of employment in the Kingdom of Humanity and the wages that you "earn" there is considered nothing more than stealing from the Kingdom of Humanity as you should be grateful enough that the Kingdom of Humanity was gracious enough to let you through its' hallowed doors. Gracious art thou...
'Nuf said!
NCTBA |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If it takes that long to get out the application form, can you imagine how long any real concerns would require? Frightening. |
It's not so much that it neccessarily takes a long time to get things done (though it often does). It's more a question of priorities and concepts of time. When you sent off your CV, the HR people felt they had no real need for it at that particular time and place, and therefore saw no reason to grace you with a reply. Now that they do, they've got back to you. All in their own good time, but not yours, of course.
Saudis generally don't respond well to the abstract, and function very much in a 'here and now' sort of way. Nothing happens for months on end, and then when things do happen, they often do so at breakneck speed. This is the reason why sending off a CV well ahead of time doesn't neccessarily give you the advantages you might expect, since many employers often only get around to dealing with applications when it's almost too late (and the best people have already accepted another offer). I'm not saying you shouldn't plan in advance, but be aware that Saudis don't always share your priorities. |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| I bet if you pulled a runner at a KSA that expects you to pay two months' salary if you leave a contract early you'd be hounded by this place day and night, seven days (and nights) a week. |
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