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What to do when EFL is starting to be a drag?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha! You were referring to another statement rather than the one you used the quote feature for! I think there were three 3rd person singular verbs there, not two. But wouldn't it labour the point to consistently use the archaic forms, three times? Opps, just split an infinitive too. I'll just have get my dungarees and bury myself in the garden. With no hope of an afterlife to boot....

This is a drag.... Crying or Very sad
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
Aha! You were referring to another statement rather than the one you used the quote feature for! I think there were three 3rd person singular verbs there, not two. But wouldn't it labour the point to consistently use the archaic forms, three times? Opps, just split an infinitive too. I'll just have get my dungarees and bury myself in the garden. With no hope of an afterlife to boot....

This is a drag.... Crying or Very sad


There were two; believe me I have spent years studying the history of the English language with Old English being my speciality.

And it's BE-labour the point.... Wink Razz
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear oh dear, I can see that things are getting you down a lot. Can things be so bad that we lose the power of basic numeracy? I counted three 3rd person singular verbs: profiteth, loses, and gains. Maybe you meant something else. I wouldn't know, as I didn't study Old English. But I think I'm labouring the point once more, and all I want to do is go off and have an existentialist bawl...

BTW, check out this Cambridge dictionary. No BE-labours there. Razz

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=44293
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
Dear oh dear, I can see that things are getting you down a lot. Can things be so bad that we lose the power of basic numeracy? I counted three 3rd person singular verbs: profiteth, loses, and gains. Maybe you meant something else. I wouldn't know, as I didn't study Old English. But I think I'm labouring the point once more, and all I want to do is go off and have an existentialist bawl...

BTW, check out this Cambridge dictionary. No BE-labours there. Razz

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=44293


Fair enough...I was referring to the conjugation of the third person singular not the sentence itself. As for belabouring the point with 'labouring' the point, I am not a prescriptivist, as someone who has studied linguistics and wrote his thesis on a descriptive phenomenon, I say whatever floats your boat jack.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The use of the word seems to have declined in American English. The Time Magazine Corpus gives only one example from the last two decades, from a height of over twenty a decade in the forties and fifities.

It's hardly moribund though; the Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA) gives 125 examples from 1990 to now, and the British National Corpus has proportionately much more, 72 from the 1990s.

I think one reason for the decline of the work is the decline of the piece of clothing itself. We have seen a massive decline in blue collar jobs, both in the UK and the US.

Apparently the word comes from Hindi.
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Jones wrote:
The use of the word seems to have declined in American English. The Time Magazine Corpus gives only one example from the last two decades, from a height of over twenty a decade in the forties and fifities.

It's hardly moribund though; the Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA) gives 125 examples from 1990 to now, and the British National Corpus has proportionately much more, 72 from the 1990s.

I think one reason for the decline of the work is the decline of the piece of clothing itself. We have seen a massive decline in blue collar jobs, both in the UK and the US.

Apparently the word comes from Hindi.


�10 says that your average 18 year old in the USA does NOT understand the word...
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference between 'belabour/belabor' and 'labour/labor' the point appears to be a BrE v AmE one. The latter has no hits in the COCA, but wins in the BNC by 6 to 2.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
�10 says that your average 18 year old in the USA does NOT understand the word...
A silly statement if ever there was one. What on earth is 'the average 18 year old in the USA' and what proportion of them need to not understand the word for you to part with your hard-earned money.
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Jones wrote:
The difference between 'belabour/belabor' and 'labour/labor' the point appears to be a BrE v AmE one. The latter has no hits in the COCA, but wins in the BNC by 6 to 2.


A rare glimpse of the American in me; what a cock up on my part... Laughing
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deicide wrote:


�10 says that your average 18 year old in the USA does NOT understand the word...


�10? There are many 18 year olds in many countries that do not understand many words. Are you still taking bets? I know a lot of arcane words that you can make a fortune on....
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, were nouns like '18 year olds' hyphenated in Old English? I'm piqued again....
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
BTW, were nouns like '18 year olds' hyphenated in Old English? I'm piqued again....


Old English?
Hmm maybe...it's been a while...but I doubt it; such things as hyphenation did not exist at the time.
By Old English I don't mean Early Modern English, just to be clear.
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
Deicide wrote:


�10 says that your average 18 year old in the USA does NOT understand the word...


�10? There are many 18 year olds in many countries that do not understand many words. Are you still taking bets? I know a lot of arcane words that you can make a fortune on....


Try me mate, the game is on! Wink
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you wrote that Old English was your speciality? No?

In any case, would an average 18-year-old from the States know the word 'chit'? Just curious as I had an Amercian colleague who thought I was swearing at her when I used this.
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
I thought you wrote that Old English was your speciality? No?

In any case, would an average 18-year-old from the States know the word 'chit'? Just curious as I had an Amercian colleague who thought I was swearing at her when I used this.


A note or memorandum? Yeah, it's astonishing how many American terms English folk are familiar with but the reverse is never the case...

But that just wasn't eldritch enough for me...

Yes, Old English, WAS, in the past but I am quite sure that no such writing conventions existed 1000+ years ago...
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