Job Discussion Forums

[Gregory.]

I would like to re-iterate my original point.

Which is that, in my opinion, teachers level of English is really not a big problem these days. In general the vast majority of teachers can already communicate well in English. There is a general lack of confidence in teachers language levels but I'm trying to say that I really don't see this as such a big problem.

I see that the general lack of direction by coordinators is hindering teachers and therefore students language success.

Very few coordinators have a vision or a plan for what they want their department to achieve. If they don't know what they want their team to achieve, then how can teachers possibly be expected to deliver results?

Coordinators need to work with their teachers, to lead them, to coach them, to support them when they have problems. Everyone knows that teamwork is one of the very best ways for people to improve, but yet teachers aren't particularly subjected to teamwork. Very often its, theres your room, here are your students, take the book and off you go!

I am just saying that a coordinator with vision makes a HUGE difference.

By the way, any teacher must accept that lesson planning is part of the job. If teachers spent more time planning (or in many cases, just a little time planning) then they would have less discipline/motivation/attitude problems in the classroom. This would, in turn, reduce teacher stress. Making teachers underpaid lives just alittle bit more enjoyable.

My originial point, ONCE AGAIN is that there is so much more to do with teachers here in Mexico. One of them however, in my opinion is not the lack of a decent level of English.

[the peanut gallery]

��..In general the vast majority of teachers can already communicate well in English. There is a general lack of confidence in teachers language levels�.�


Not exactly a glowing opinion of supposed professionals.



�I see that the general lack of direction by coordinators is hindering teachers and therefore students language success. �


Agreed. A stronger chain of command would help. But who is responsible for the coordinators lack of direction? The onus is on their superiors (directors, managers, owners) to ensure the coordinators do their jobs. If the coordinators are unwilling or unable to fulfill the remit of the job then they should be removed from their post. This would require a more hands on approach that most directors/managers/owners don�t seem eager to embrace.



�Very few coordinators have a vision or a plan for what they want their department to achieve. If they don't know what they want their team to achieve, then how can teachers possibly be expected to deliver results?�

Many coordinators were promoted from the teacher ranks and have ascended to their position not based on their qualifications to lead others, departmental planning, or vision. Rather, they are handed the position by default; the longest serving teacher becomes the coordinator when the incumbent leaves his/her post. When language businesses invest in the right people good things happen. Students learn faster, teachers are concise, coordinators manage resources correctly, and owners bottom lines flourish. Sadly, this is far too stable and logical a business model for your average language outfit. Cut corners , shaft both employees and customers alike is the M.O.




�Coordinators need to work with their teachers, to lead them, to coach them, to support them when they have problems. Everyone knows that teamwork is one of the very best ways for people to improve, but yet teachers aren't particularly subjected to teamwork. Very often its, theres your room, here are your students, take the book and off you go!�


Excellent point! But again, all the blame isn�t on the worker. Senior management are also not doing their jobs.


�By the way, any teacher must accept that lesson planning is part of the job. If teachers spent more time planning (or in many cases, just a little time planning) then they would have less discipline/motivation/attitude problems in the classroom. This would, in turn, reduce teacher stress. Making teachers underpaid lives just alittle bit more enjoyable. �


A statement that teachers lead underpaid lives follows advocacy for working for free as a stress reliever? Post of the year candidate!


Proper compensation for providing a quality service is what most teachers want. Who on this forum wouldnt put up with students with bad attitudes if they were receiving 30,000 per month?

[MotherF]

[the peanut gallery]

Agreed. Fair pay needs to take into account local factors. Changing the number from 30000 to 15000, if it is a fair salary for the area, does not invalidate my point.

[Enchilada Potosina]

[Gregory.]

[Enchilada Potosina]

[Guy Courchesne]

You're both right in what you can find in Mexico and both wrong in generalizing too much. I don't know SLP at all but do know it's a small part of what you can find here in a large country.

I've seen both sides in DF, which we all know is a large large place.

I don't see the culture of teamwork in staff of most larger education organizations though. I think there's a culture of heavy top-down management that comes through in all industries.

It's been interesting to watch and interact with the American school in DF along the lines of career mobility and decision-making. The school is about a 50-50 split on Mexican vs foreign nationalities from top to bottom and while the upper crust is making major policy decisions, they are governed on curriculum from the bottom by a system of committees headed by teachers themselves. Promotion to the next tier at department heads is done by recommendation from below. From what I've seen, this is also the case at a few other schools.

But then you've also got other highly regarded schools that are tightly controlled from the top, by foreigners and Mexicans alike. Peterson comes to mind, as does Cedros (another poster should jump in here to help me with this one in particular).

And then there's Westhill...anyone working there now care to comment, if you're not in a self-induced coma to avoid work on Monday?

I don't see how this differs from just about every other profession there is out there...many companies struggle with the internals of management and whole other companies exist just to pitch their management schemes to deal with it.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

For the record, it is one thing to be able to express your opinion here within our rules. It is another thing to incessantly post basically the same opinion again and again and again and again on virtually every thread and discussion one visits so as to derail and/or shut down discussion.

Again, for the record, using this board to pursue personal agendas or settle old grievances is not permitted. It never has been.

Accordingly, members that continue to violate the above policies are going to find themselves receiving sanctions of the temporary or permanent nature.

Members observing violations of the above policies are requested to promptly advise the Mod Team by Report Post or PM.

[the peanut gallery]

��.market forces are telling us that Mexicans can't afford to pay inflated rates for their colegiaturas. And believe me, even though some will jump on me for saying this.... the money is NOT going into the pockets of school owners. �

Mexicans are most certainly capable of paying fair value for English classes. But there is no need to pay 1 dollar for an apple if someone will sell you it for 50 cents.

�Inflated�? What do you consider inflated?

If the money is NOT going into the pockets of school owners then where is it going? If English schools were not lucrative businesses then why are they so ubiquitous? There must be a reason everyone and their brother wants to start their own school.

�American citizens looking for a cheap deal are the real culprits here- if they paid a fair market price for the products or services that they bought, then those making the products would be paid a fair wage. If a fair wage was paid, then a reasonable charge for education could be made and this could then transfer into the teachers pockets. �

A language school in Mexico that pays poorly is merely a consequence of American consumerism? So then it�s nothing to do with the school? They are just victims of their neighbours greed?


��.stop complaining and give the country, Mexicans and education a break. �

I have no issues with Mexico or Mexicans. My issue is with education providers. Why should those responsible for educating people be given a free pass? Education should be treated with more respect than that. Education should be held to the highest of standards, and NOT be given a break.


�Simply put- if the market won't support increased monthly payments for services received, then pay won't increase. �

Again, if business is so bad then why so many English schools?


��If you don't like it... don't complain about it here- move to China where you CAN get better pay rates and good luck!�

I dont like the situation, that much is correct. Seems to me that the teachers are always to blame while the schools get off because they are just some honest people doing their darn bestest honestest goodheartedest work in the world.

Im not interested in China but thanks for your unsolicited advice.

As much as some would see my opinion as negative, it is not negative toward Mexico or its people. I think that most Mexican ESL students are getting a raw deal. They deserve better. I do understand there are external factors which negatively affect the TEFL market here. Some posters go to great lengths to highlight these factors. That�s all good and well. If only they would acknowledge the 1000 lb gorilla in the room: For profit English language businesses that care only about profit and nothing about poor educational standards and even poorer wages for teachers are the norm, not the exception.

[Phil_K]

[the peanut gallery]

I enjoyed your post Phil. Well balanced.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

For the record (Part II), it would be a very good idea for there to be no more comments posted alleging that one is "anti-Mexico/Mexican," "Mexico/Mexican bashing" or that "someone should go home if they don't like it here."

Just because someone has something negative to say does not make him or her any of these things and no one has the right to tell any other member here "to go home."

If the quarreling and contentious bickering continue on the Mexican forums, there will be sanctions of the severe variety distributed amongst all camps involved in this little drama.

This is the last warning that will be issued in this matter and it is not open to discussion, public board comment or appeal.

[Enchilada Potosina]

[Phil_K]