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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| It'ds direct hire. OWLS don't make nay money from the wages. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Unemployment while one is still employed? Good luck! The months you aren't paid are still during the contract period, just on spring, winter and summer breaks. You can't get it until you work 6 months, I think, and that won't be much. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Unemployment while one is still employed? Good luck! The months you aren't paid are still during the contract period, just on spring, winter and summer breaks. You can't get it until you work 6 months, I think, and that won't be much. |
I'm not seriously going to do that. But still, ALTs do get laid off every year. There is a good 4 week time period where you are with out a contract. I would say that counts as being laid off. Even with a pending contract. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Unemployment while one is still employed? Good luck! The months you aren't paid are still during the contract period, just on spring, winter and summer breaks. You can't get it until you work 6 months, I think, and that won't be much. |
I'm not seriously going to do that. But still, ALTs do get laid off every year. There is a good 4 week time period where you are with out a contract. I would say that counts as being laid off. Even with a pending contract. |
He's right about the spring; many ALTs are actually "between" contracts so are technically unemployed from the last day of term until the beginning of term in April (although the length of umemployment varies - I've never had more than two weeks between contracts). |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Unemployment while one is still employed? Good luck! The months you aren't paid are still during the contract period, just on spring, winter and summer breaks. You can't get it until you work 6 months, I think, and that won't be much. |
I'm not seriously going to do that. But still, ALTs do get laid off every year. There is a good 4 week time period where you are with out a contract. I would say that counts as being laid off. Even with a pending contract. |
He's right about the spring; many ALTs are actually "between" contracts so are technically unemployed from the last day of term until the beginning of term in April (although the length of umemployment varies - I've never had more than two weeks between contracts). |
Thanks for the assist. In my area, the ALTs are finished March 21st, and the new contract starts April 17th. It's a bit shorter this year, which is good for those who are in that situation. 4 weeks, is a lot of weeks to not get paid. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure but I think there is a law/policy which says if you work for 3 years at one place, your employer must hire you permanently. One problem with dispatch agencies is that they go by the letter of the law on this, and since you are laid off for 2-4 weeks in spring (as mentioned), you are not working there for a continuous 52 weeks, so the law/policy would not apply.
Might not be important in one's mind at the beginning, but later on...? |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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I've heard that too. I think it stems from a case where a part-time worker at 7/11 was laid off and went to court over it as she'd worked there for about 15 years. She won.
This is something I heard a long time ago though. |
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marley'sghost
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
I'm not sure but I think there is a law/policy which says if you work for 3 years at one place, your employer must hire you permanently. One problem with dispatch agencies is that they go by the letter of the law on this, and since you are laid off for 2-4 weeks in spring (as mentioned), you are not working there for a continuous 52 weeks, so the law/policy would not apply.
Might not be important in one's mind at the beginning, but later on...? |
You're right on both counts. There is a 3 year rule and the dispatch companies do go by the letter of it. Getting around that regulation is one of the reasons they exist. In addtion to making the contracts shorter than a year, they often include a "29.5 working hours a week" limit. You might be present at the school 40 hours a week, but only the time you are in class or assigned activities or "prep" time will count as "work". If you work less than 30 hours a week, you are part time help and the 3 year rule doesn't apply to you. Sneaky. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| marley'sghost wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
I'm not sure but I think there is a law/policy which says if you work for 3 years at one place, your employer must hire you permanently. One problem with dispatch agencies is that they go by the letter of the law on this, and since you are laid off for 2-4 weeks in spring (as mentioned), you are not working there for a continuous 52 weeks, so the law/policy would not apply.
Might not be important in one's mind at the beginning, but later on...? |
You're right on both counts. There is a 3 year rule and the dispatch companies do go by the letter of it. Getting around that regulation is one of the reasons they exist. In addtion to making the contracts shorter than a year, they often include a "29.5 working hours a week" limit. You might be present at the school 40 hours a week, but only the time you are in class or assigned activities or "prep" time will count as "work". If you work less than 30 hours a week, you are part time help and the 3 year rule doesn't apply to you. Sneaky. |
Well, I guess getting laid off every year, is super convenient, as it gets around this rule quite nicely. If it didn't, I bet ALTs would be transferred to subsidiary companies, and sent to work in the next school district. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| If looked at from a union standpoint, the system sucks for the ALT. He can't be sure of any security. His dispatch company will continually shaft him for days off (unpaid), not let him be a permanent employee anywhere (except for the dispatcher) and instead be forced to migrate to several schools per week/month, and get shafted on benefits when some dispatchers claim the ALT is not their employee but a subcontractor instead. Not sneaky, but insidious and unscrupulous. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| If looked at from a union standpoint, the system sucks for the ALT. He can't be sure of any security. His dispatch company will continually shaft him for days off (unpaid), not let him be a permanent employee anywhere (except for the dispatcher) and instead be forced to migrate to several schools per week/month, and get shafted on benefits when some dispatchers claim the ALT is not their employee but a subcontractor instead. Not sneaky, but insidious and unscrupulous. |
Although I don't disagree with the general idea in your message, you tend to word it as if dispatch is the mother of all evils. But if you read back only a page or so you will see that that the GU has unleashed something far worse; 4 months of no pay on a direct hire position... there be dark times ahead for foreign ESL workers in Japan. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| If looked at from a union standpoint, the system sucks for the ALT. He can't be sure of any security. His dispatch company will continually shaft him for days off (unpaid), not let him be a permanent employee anywhere (except for the dispatcher) and instead be forced to migrate to several schools per week/month, and get shafted on benefits when some dispatchers claim the ALT is not their employee but a subcontractor instead. Not sneaky, but insidious and unscrupulous. |
Although I don't disagree with the general idea in your message, you tend to word it as if dispatch is the mother of all evils. But if you read back only a page or so you will see that that the GU has unleashed something far worse; 4 months of no pay on a direct hire position... there be dark times ahead for foreign ESL workers in Japan. |
Yeah, if that somehow goes well. We are all doomed. Too bad teh GU contract lawyers, or whoever wrote that, prolly left in some loopholes that the Yamato-maru could sail through. That or they did this on purpose, to get other concessions, that may have nothing to do with ALTs.
If I had an 8 month contract. Any second that I wasn't in class, I would treat as 100% my time. If I had 2 periods in a row off, I would teach private lessons outside of school then. As, I would need every bit to make it through 4 months of no pay.
My company had something like this happen. I had rural HS, so the BOE wanted the position to be PT. Which in some months would mean almost no pay. So, the next person who worked there quit, as did others in the same situation. It backfired, prettyhard. As they went through 2 or so ALTs per position, that year. Which is a vastly higher turnover rate than normal. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| Although I don't disagree with the general idea in your message, you tend to word it as if dispatch is the mother of all evils. |
I don't have a good opinion of them, that's true. Far too much has been reported to put them in a bad light. What's your opinion? Good?
| Quote: |
| But if you read back only a page or so you will see that that the GU has unleashed something far worse; 4 months of no pay on a direct hire position... there be dark times ahead for foreign ESL workers in Japan. |
To be honest, I only skimmed that (been super busy lately), but I can't imagine the union actually asking for an 8-month-paid contract. I think there is some confusion going on about that. If memory serves, the GU is actually battling to get contracts for ALTs in which they get paid (either more than now, or paid something at all, depending on circumstances) for certain months where employers currently pay 60% of wages or nothing.
As for the GU fighting to eliminate team teaching, again I don't know if that's really what is happening. Would have to investigate further, but time is important to me right now, so the best I can do is say that the GU is for, not against, good teaching practices. Perhaps what is happening is that the GU is trying to look out for ALTs' welfare, and some things are caught in a crossfire. Sorry I can't be more helpful right now.
For the moment all I can do is add these links from the union.
http://fukuoka.generalunion.org/alt/index.html (The ALT scam link)
http://fukuoka.generalunion.org/alt/index.html (survey for ALTs, where it clearly states they are for "A regular and decent salary through out the year)
http://www.generalunion.org/alt/news/672
http://www.generalunion.org/alt/news/626
http://www.generalunion.org/News?nl=1 (general news link, lots of info) |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| I don't have a good opinion of them, that's true. Far too much has been reported to put them in a bad light. What's your opinion? Good? |
And nothing bad is ever said about eikaiwa or other ALT positions? Threads on this very board haven't been posted about eikaiwa owners screwing over their employees? Perhaps you should either do more research or be more balanced in your arguements because the picture you often paint doesn't tell the whole story; that most (if not practically all) the things you point out as being negatives about dispatch happen in non-dispatch and eikaiwa positions, too: partial/no pay during holidays (the direct hire position mentioned in this thread is a perfect example), no SH (this scam runs right along the ESL industry and is by no means limited to dispatch), poor pay (again a quick look at job lists will almost cerainly bring up all kinds of jobs with appauling salaries far lower than my industry standard working for a dispatch company), etc.
I'm not saying dispatch companies are good; I'm saying that you focus on the negatives of dispatch companies in a way that suggests that the same scams are not being run in eikaiwa or non-dispatch ALT jobs.
| Quote: |
To be honest, I only skimmed that (been super busy lately), but I can't imagine the union actually asking for an 8-month-paid contract. I think there is some confusion going on about that. If memory serves, the GU is actually battling to get contracts for ALTs in which they get paid (either more than now, or paid something at all, depending on circumstances) for certain months where employers currently pay 60% of wages or nothing.
As for the GU fighting to eliminate team teaching, again I don't know if that's really what is happening. Would have to investigate further, but time is important to me right now, so the best I can do is say that the GU is for, not against, good teaching practices. Perhaps what is happening is that the GU is trying to look out for ALTs' welfare, and some things are caught in a crossfire. |
I don�t think that the GU intended to eliminate team teaching or create a worse situation for ALTs. But nevertheless, these things seem to have come around as an unforeseen response to their efforts.
I (as well as many of the ALTs working under my previous BOE) have personally ended up on the receiving end of the backlash created by the GU�s good intentions; assistance that many of us never asked for and never wanted. Were we altruistic enough to be able to say, �Well future ALTs might benefit from our suffering, so it is worth it�? I think not; we left (some of us to other placements whilst others were forced to leave Japan altogether) with a bitter taste in our mouth.
It may be that the disgusting direct positions mentioned in this very thread are just another example of what can happen when the GU don�t get it quite right. Because as the saying goes: You win some, you lose some. It just happens that when they lose, their losses are often felt by those who never wanted anything to do with the GU or their fights in the first place.
What do I think about dispatch? I think that some companies (again you have a tendency to over generalise about dispatch companies and refuse to acknowledge that not all companies are as awful as others) can provide positions that prove the lesser of two evils when compared to the multitude of ridiculous positions being provided by other companies and even the BOEs themselves and that these positions can be adequate for the large number of people who either don�t intend to remain in Japan or be an ALT for the rest of their life. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| I don't have a good opinion of them, that's true. Far too much has been reported to put them in a bad light. What's your opinion? Good? |
And nothing bad is ever said about eikaiwa or other ALT positions? Threads on this very board haven't been posted about eikaiwa owners screwing over their employees? Perhaps you should either do more research or be more balanced in your arguements |
Excuse me? I thought the only topic at hand here was the dispatch ALTs. If anyone had asked about the others, I'd have gladly contributed. Please stop putting a slant on things that wasn't there.
| Quote: |
| because the picture you often paint doesn't tell the whole story;that most (if not practically all) the things you point out as being negatives about dispatch happen in non-dispatch and eikaiwa positions, too: |
I was not aware that eikaiwas didn't pay people for the down time. AFAIK, most eikaiwas do.
Again, since eikaiwas were not the topic, why did you get on my case about them?
And as for non-dispatch ALTs, about the only one around is JET. Pretty darned good situation, IMO.
| Quote: |
| I'm not saying dispatch companies are good |
I'm happy to see you say that because I was beginning to wonder.
| Quote: |
| ; I'm saying that you focus on the negatives of dispatch companies in a way that suggests that the same scams are not being run in eikaiwa or non-dispatch ALT jobs. |
Not my intention at all, and I find it hard to see how you even suspected as such. At least that's cleared up.
| Quote: |
| What do I think about dispatch? I think that some companies (again you have a tendency to over generalise about dispatch companies and refuse to acknowledge that not all companies are as awful as others) can provide positions that prove the lesser of two evils when compared to the multitude of ridiculous positions being provided by other companies and even the BOEs themselves and that these positions can be adequate for the large number of people who either don�t intend to remain in Japan or be an ALT for the rest of their life. |
This whole quote looks a lot like something you would criticize me for writing. One has to generalize somewhere, ok? You are doing it above and at the same time telling me not to.
Are all dispatch agencies terrible? Well, it depends on one's point of view, I guess. If you believe (as some purport) that most operate illegally because they don't have a proper license, then they are all bad in that sense. If one is willing to live with some poor working conditions, then that is one's prerogative, but that's when we stop generalizing and get into an individual's choice, which is very hard to use to explain "how it is" in Japan. The only real good that can come out if it, as I see it, is when the poster and the person asking questions are in identical situations or when a dispatch company is named by name (even then, branch offices may vary in their conditions). Me, I just believe in telling both sides of the story, and if I see some points are missing in a thread, I contribute with what has not been mentioned. Unfortunately, it is often a negative thing, so please don't paint me as offering unbalanced information; I do make a point, and it is to help. I hope you can see that. |
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