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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Lack wrote: |
| Recall that I haven't broken anything in the contract, while my employer has. |
You keep saying that...and you're wrong every time.
You have not given us an example where the employer has broken the contract though more than a few have asked you for it. You have only given us an example of how you broke your contract.
You keep talking of logic but I see none of it in your posts. I only see a superiority complex. By the way....if you read GA's post, he clearly stated he was not addressing only you, snowflake.
I think many of us have worked with folks like you before and not enjoyed the experience. You are not as special as you think. I'm glad you're leaving after only one year. Your employer is likely glad as well.
Good riddance..... |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| doogsville wrote: |
Dear God man, are you now, or have you ever been, in China. Your about as unique as water over here. Your less difficult to replace than a light bulb. There is nothing about you of any value to any Chinese employer that cannot be found in millions of other native English speakers. |
First, "you're," not "your."
There are not millions of native English speakers here - only a few thousand.
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| The second part of your sentence above completely contradicts the first part. If foreigners are so damn hard to replace, how come they never have trouble finding a job? Think about it? |
Are you really this obtuse or are you trying to troll me?
There are more jobs to fill than teachers to fill them. Many jobs go unfilled each year. Therefore, teachers never have trouble finding a job because they have many jobs to choose from. Employers (as a group) have trouble filling all their jobs because they have many more jobs than foreigners to choose from.
There will always be some exceptions. Beijing is far more known and popular than where I am. No one wants to come to this city. A teacher leaves here and it's a serious problem.
Last edited by Lack on Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
| Lack wrote: |
| Recall that I haven't broken anything in the contract, while my employer has. |
You keep saying that...and you're wrong every time.
You have not given us an example where the employer has broken the contract though more than a few have asked you for it. You have only given us an example of how you broke your contract.
You keep talking of logic but I see none of it in your posts. I only see a superiority complex. By the way....if you read GA's post, he clearly stated he was not addressing only you, snowflake.
I think many of us have worked with folks like you before and not enjoyed the experience. You are not as special as you think. I'm glad you're leaving after only one year. Your employer is likely glad as well.
Good riddance..... |
Yes, I did give the examples. Why not try actually reading my posts?
Your insults are hollow and lame. Even the Chinese wouldn't call you clever.
You guys are too good fer readin' and dad-gum law-gic around these here parts... |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Lack wrote: |
| Yes, I did give the examples. Why not try actually reading my posts? |
I have read them. You have not given any clear examples.
These are the closest I could find...
| Lack wrote: |
| He lied multiple times, and has violated my and my coworkers' contracts multiple times. |
| Lack wrote: |
I won't get specific, but he has forced extra work hours, work on off-days, etc. |
Forced? They dragged you into class by your hair? I don't understand this.
| Lack wrote: |
I don't suffer BS and bullying gladly |
Yes, I see that....but you did accept it if they somehow 'forced' you to work on your days off and eat additional work hours. Were those 'forced' hours unpaid? But...you sure didn't accept it gladly. You've been crying about it here long enough.
I'll summarize all your posts, correct me if I am wrong.
1. You signed a contract that agreed to a salary range and no clear metrics to determine what would be required to obtain more than the lowest amount. You were paid within the range your contract stated.
2. They asked you to work on your days off sometimes. Which you did. You were compensated.
3. They asked you to work hours above your contracted maximum. Overtime. Which you did. You were compensated.
4. You found out others teachers had a better contract. This made you either a) jealous or b)angry at yourself for not negotiating better. This resulted in you throwing a hissy fit at your school and threatening to leave your job unless they complied with your new demands.
5. ?????
6. The school is evil. |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Forced as in we all knew there would be unofficial punishments for not doing it. And I've seen such things be done to those who did not go along with it. Perhaps you find it acceptable; if so, I could never take you seriously. For a school or any other company or professional organization, such behavior is unacceptable. I find it interesting that as teachers, you would not expect and even demand forthrightness from an employer. Or, as I suspect, you guys would just as quickly find a problem with things if it was done to you. Or you've declined to stand up for yourselves when it was done to you.
Getting the higher pay was supposed to based on qualifications and experience, and I have both. So he took advantage of a technicality. Strange, though, because he didn't always take advantage of the technicality with everyone. And when that happens, there's always some BS reason behind it. He would apply it in a nonsense way: those who got paid the full amount often didn't have much or anything in the way qualifications and experience. And a couple of those he shorted were over-qualified. So it was just a way to take out things personally against teachers. That's clearly bullying, and there's no good reason to put up with it. You guys keep throwing a hissy-fit because of technicalities.
I'll give you an example of why technicalities are BS. Speeding is a crime. Did you know cops can technically arrest you for speeding? It's completely legal and up to their discretion. But wouldn't that be absurd to arrest someone for going 36 in a 35? And yet, I guess to you, it would be perfectly acceptable because it is technically legal. This is why it's better to go by what's logical than by what is legal. The spirit, not the letter, matters most.
Regardless, you guys lose this argument repeatedly. I stood up for myself and put an end to this BS long ago. End of story. And you know what? If need be, I'll do it again in the future. Period. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I could never take you seriously. |
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| Getting the higher pay was supposed to based on qualifications and experience, and I have both. |
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| And a couple of those he shorted were over-qualified. |
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| Did you know cops can technically arrest you for speeding? |
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| Regardless, you guys lose this argument repeatedly. |
Cuz, you seem to be one of the most naive "pilgrims" to ever to grace the employment world. As to the cop thing... the reason they don't arrest you is so that anything you say will turn states evidence... ACAB..second a Boss decides qualification ... you decide attributes. Over Qualified=over blown inflated egos. The fact that your assigning a winner and a loser indicates that you see these posting as more of a fight to justify your position as your not sure of it yourself. Do you really care what Muf sez....you put an end to this and therefore what would it matter that some on these boards consider your whining just another foreigner out of touch with reality. By the way, when cop ask you if you know how fast you were going.... don't answer. Cops are Bullies. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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@Lack
You keep talking about what we would do.
We would not have signed a contract with a salary range. You still can't get your head around the fact that you made a mistake. All by yourself.
So WE would never be in a position like yours.
There is no 'technicality' involved here. You signed a dumb contract then cried about it when you found out others were making more and/or had different contracts.
So they had reasons to pay teachers different amounts. So? If teachers agree to a range, this is exactly what they (and you) agreed to. You don't have to agree with their decisions on who gets paid what, pretty sure that wasn't in the contract. Agreeing to a range and being paid within the range does not equate to bullying just because you disagree with how much soandso was given compared to soandso....not on any level and not by any definition of the word.
You said the salary would be determined by qualifications and experience. They did not know your qualifications or experience before you signed the contract? Of course they did. You still signed the contract with a salary range in place anyway. That wasn't very smart.
Be an adult and accept your responsibility in the situation and more here would take you seriously. Instead...you are only worthy of mockery and pity.
You did not win any argument. Your points were all invalidated in your first post in this thread. There was no real argument.
...Your speeding analogy was pretty hilarious in it's absurdity. Thanks for the laughs. Your posts are full of them. Perhaps one day you'll see why, though I doubt it.
| Lack wrote: |
| I have a degree and experience working with kids, and when I first came to China my boss tried to pay me less than what the other foreign teachers were making. He had given me a different contract than them, which stated a certain pay range was possible. Of course, he paid me the lowest possible amount according to the contract. I told him I didn't care about the contract and to either pay me the going rate or look for a new teacher. (I did get the going rate after that.) |
The above was your first post in this thread. You rolled in here like an internet tough guy who put his boss in his place. I guess you were disappointed more folks didn't cheer you on like you were some kind of a hero and have been trying to justify your actions ever since. Problem is, you can't justify it. So all we have now is a lot of posts of you spinning your wheels and getting nowhere. This is all your doing. Had you been an adult and come in with less of a chip on your shoulder, you'd have been far more respected than you currently are. Something along the lines of....
| Quote: |
| This is my first year teaching in China and I ended up signing a crappy contract because I did not know any better. Fortunately, I was able to renegotiate the terms with my boss. |
.
Instead of something rational and reasonable like the above, you keep trying to make the school into the bad guy. In this you have failed completely and the more you try the less people think of you. |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Cuz, you seem to be one of the most naive "pilgrims" to ever to grace the employment world. As to the cop thing... the reason they don't arrest you is so that anything you say will turn states evidence... ACAB..second a Boss decides qualification ... you decide attributes. Over Qualified=over blown inflated egos. The fact that your assigning a winner and a loser indicates that you see these posting as more of a fight to justify your position as your not sure of it yourself. Do you really care what Muf sez....you put an end to this and therefore what would it matter that some on these boards consider your whining just another foreigner out of touch with reality. By the way, when cop ask you if you know how fast you were going.... don't answer. Cops are Bullies. |
"Cuz," you seem to be one of the most irrational posters on the forum.
The cops would rather extract money quickly and be done with it, and meet their quota. They want to maximize profit and minimize work. I was pointing out the part about technicalities, however, which you did not address.
Over-qualified just means that you have more qualifications than the employer requests. If the employer requests two years experience, but you have a degree and experience, that's means you're over-qualified. Don't project.
At least you have some idea of how to deal with cops. |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
You keep talking about what we would do. |
Let's see. So you guys would either be perfect, and make no mistakes. Or, you would (or have) made mistakes and decided to suffer through it rather than correct it. But, see...I'm not going to be the guy losing out on a few grand a year because some boss guy lied to me.
| Quote: |
We would not have signed a contract with a salary range. You still can't get your head around the fact that you made a mistake. All by yourself.
So WE would never be in a position like yours. |
I did make a mistake. Never said I didn't. I learned the lesson and corrected the mistake.
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| There is no 'technicality' involved here. You signed a dumb contract then cried about it when you found out others were making more and/or had different contracts. |
I don't believe in letting myself get ripped off if I can help it. I'm not going to take less money for the same damn job. Sorry, buddy, you'll never convince me otherwise. I've got a few extra grand now and the cost was standing up to the lies and bullying.
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| So they had reasons to pay teachers different amounts. |
Incorrect. If they were using this line of reasoning (not that they use lines of reasoning in China) they would have paid opposite to how they did. The lower qualified, less experienced teachers were often making more than those with better experience and qualifications. It was a way to enforce personal vendettas. I don't care for workplace politics and other assorted BS, so having a vendetta is not an acceptable reason for ripping me off.
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| If teachers agree to a range, this is exactly what they (and you) agreed to. You don't have to agree with their decisions on who gets paid what, pretty sure that wasn't in the contract. Agreeing to a range and being paid within the range does not equate to bullying just because you disagree with how much soandso was given compared to soandso....not on any level and not by any definition of the word. |
It was to be based on qualifications and experience, which was a blatant lie.
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| You said the salary would be determined by qualifications and experience. They did not know your qualifications or experience before you signed the contract? Of course they did. You still signed the contract with a salary range in place anyway. That wasn't very smart. |
I agree. You know what would have been even worse? Accepting being ripped off.
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| Be an adult and accept your responsibility in the situation and more here would take you seriously. Instead...you are only worthy of mockery and pity. |
It would have been grossly more irresponsible to accept being ripped off. Your insults are feeble, and as the Chinese would say, not very clever. You just barge in, claim victory without putting forth any valid arguments, then insult and dash off for a while. Come on, if you wish to be insulting, at least be clever. You aren't putting in much effort.
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| You did not win any argument. Your points were all invalidated in your first post in this thread. There was no real argument. |
Now you're just claiming things without backing it up. Yawn.
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| ...Your speeding analogy was pretty hilarious in it's absurdity. Thanks for the laughs. Your posts are full of them. Perhaps one day you'll see why, though I doubt it. |
Yes, thanks for explaining why it was absurd with your incredible grasp of reason. Your insults, to be blunt, suck. Try harder if you wish to be insulting. I can practically hear the crickets chirping every time you post.
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| The above was your first post in this thread. You rolled in here like an internet tough guy who put his boss in his place. I guess you were disappointed more folks didn't cheer you on like you were some kind of a hero and have been trying to justify your actions ever since. Problem is, you can't justify it. So all we have now is a lot of posts of you spinning your wheels and getting nowhere. This is all your doing. Had you been an adult and come in with less of a chip on your shoulder, you'd have been far more respected than you currently are. Something along the lines of.... |
Well, let's see. If someone follows your advice, they'll end up being taken advantage of and losing out on potentially thousands of RMB.
If someone takes my advice, they'll learn to stand up for themselves and end up with more money. I see a clear winner here.
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| Instead of something rational and reasonable like the above, you keep trying to make the school into the bad guy. In this you have failed completely and the more you try the less people think of you. |
Don't care what people think. Most people are idiots that believe in BS like you're spouting. If I did care what others thought, I'd have much less money right now. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Lack wrote: |
| ...Don't care what people think. ... |
obviously you do. otherwise you would have stopped while you were,
well, not exactly ahead, but at least before you were so far behind.
remember.....better to remain silent and thought a fool than to continue
posting and remove all doubt. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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Big Worm
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I'm beginning to understand why you can't get a job.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but you are not God's gift to China. You sound like a real pain in the "you know what". Businesses EVERYWHERE try to maximize profit. The idea in HR dept's is that foreign "teachers" are easily replaceable.....and that's because they are. There are oodles of resumes coming in everyday. You really aren't special, and shouldn't act like it or expect it...unless you want to have difficulties finding a job.
Culture is "indirect" here. Confronting your boss and demanding things, telling him you are going to walk and tell the internet about him being corrupt is laughable. He probably laughed at that after you left.
Contracts are generally frameworks of understanding. Is it the same as if you were contracted by the US gov't to build a missile system? no. You teach the alphabet to young people in China. I actually think and expect things to come up that aren't in the contract. It is completely unreasonable to think you can plan for every contingency that might come up within a year into a document. If you have any sort of interpersonal skills, you can also make that flexibility work for you. How many people work side jobs "illegally" while that employer turns a blind eye?
I'd go on, but I suspect you are just going to tell everyone how YOU expect everything to be how you want it, and how if it doesn't happen the other person is sabotaging you with their corrupt practices. Cuz, yeah, business owners love to sabotage their business. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| "Cuz," you seem to be one of the most irrational posters on the forum. |
Abso-fracking-lutely ..... it is my "horror" to imagine working within your guidelines of rationality, or many others that I witness in this academic passion-play. But then again, I am not complaining bout being crucified
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The cops would rather extract money quickly and be done with it, and meet their quota. They want to maximize profit and minimize work. I was pointing out the part about technicalities, however, which you did not address.
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Blessedly, perhaps you have not had a lot of contact with the
"Blue Gang", ..... technicality you are and will ever more be wrong bout why cops don't arrest you in the field..When you admit to them the questions they ask, your not under arrest therefore you have no right of being notified of your rights...try not answering their questions and rolling over for em'.... a four hour, light in your face, interrogation to show you who is boss.
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| Over-qualified just means that you have more qualifications than the employer requests. If the employer requests two years experience, but you have a degree and experience, that's means you're over-qualified. Don't project. |
An employer has both written and unwritten qualifications as we all do.....you didn't project and see where it got you .... this is China man and lying is the norm.....these are just a few of the technicalities that you overlooked... |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:38 am Post subject: |
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It keeps going and going and going and going…
Still going!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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mw182006
Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| ^ This thread is brutal. |
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