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Travel Zen
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 634
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Violence begets violence.
Should be kept on the big screen. This isn't your high school gymnasium, is it?
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bejarano
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 67
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Its been 3 years since you have first posted and you have yet to go? Whats holding you back? Go, come back and give us your first hand experiences which are going to carry some weight regarding the subject.
Exercise caution. Act as you would in Lagos and in would say you have more chance coming a cropper there than anywhere in Russia. |
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Travel Zen
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 634
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that I must go, just money is holding me back. I love Russian history and must see places like Moscow, Kursk, Tsaritsyn and the like.
I will go, no probs.
BTW, what's a 'cropper'? I'm guessing thats a british word ? Does it mean dead? Yeah, Nigeria is another place I want to go, and it's also not Disenyland. Neither was India or China, but i'm alive and well 
Russia is not so bad, I'm sure. Thanks all.  |
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sebastienupper
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Australia, Western
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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"come a cropper" is a colloquialism that means to fall over heavily, but it also means, in general (figuratively), to 'stuff up' or fail badly at some particular endeavour.
It was used extensively in Australia, could be dying out a bit now. I've definitely heard this used by Brits, so I think its origin is probably British.
Re GF: Yes, I thought as much actually. I agree.
Re: Larry Paradine. I read your story. Scary. Although, in actual fact, 10 years ago I walked around in the dodgier areas of Liverpool (Mersey side) at 3am while drunk (while I was 23!) and never had a problem. I felt pretty safe. Admittedly, you do get propositioned by prostitutes and drug dealers when you do this, but in keeping with the English stereotype, they were always very polite...
Actually, Samara is one of the areas/cities I'm looking at (I've been looking almost as long as you Travel Zen!) got any tips regarding this place--safety or therwise? |
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Larry Paradine
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| On and off I've been in Samara for several years, have occasionally been on the streets in the small hours and so far (frantically touching wood!) haven't been attacked. An American teacher named Tim was badly beaten here a couple of years ago (somewhere in the back numbers you may find his acccount of it), but I've been told that it was very late and he was walking, if not staggering, back from one of the beach cafes. Generally I don't find Samara to be dangerous (whereas I've always felt rather wary in Ulyanovsk-Simbirsk, hence it was all the more stupid of me to go for that 3am walk), but obviously much depends on time, place and other factors. |
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maruss
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Cyprus
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: Samara etc. |
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| Avoid Togliatti-it's far worse than Samara and also has one of the highest drug abuse rates in Russia!If you are taking a job advertised as being in Samara,clarify before you accept it that it will be there and not in Togliatti as there is a notorious language school that cons people in this way! |
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sebastienupper
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Australia, Western
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Maruss, Larry. I'll try to make sure of that.
I'm a long way from receiving job offers.
I know this is a bit off-topic, though it is concerned with danger: how do you feel when you are flying around (inside) Russia using Aeroflot?
Another plane of theirs crashed recently (in Samara).
Do you just grip the armrest really tight and down the complimentary vodka and pray?
Or do you just grip the armrest really tight and consign yourself to the fact that it's safer than driving (car accidents), safer than the train (you may get mugged) and safer than you'll be when it lands? (You may get mugged.) |
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moncur
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Travel Zen wrote: |
I can understand Nationalism (extremism) when things aren't as they used to be, but why the Nazi colors and symbol-ogy?
That's like the chinese taking Imperial Japan as a source.
Doesn't make sense, but dangerous nonetheless. |
A bit late on the reply, but here's my two cents:
Don't try to rationalise it. It's just white=good, non-white bad. You're probably more aware of the politics and history of their country than these idiots are. Any sort of political ideology they try to marry to their beliefs is secondary. They're angry and ignorant, and that's the end of it.
What gets me more is that it's springing up again in Germany. I mean, how can you look at the destruction Hitler brought upon that country and then turn around and say he had the right idea.
Or even worse, imagine being a veteran or the wife/widow of one and then see your grandson marching around in his boots with a shaved head and swaztika talking about the glory of the Nazis.
None of it is logic, which probably adds to their danger. |
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ColdRodear
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 36
Location: St Petersburg
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| moncur wrote: |
| Travel Zen wrote: |
I can understand Nationalism (extremism) when things aren't as they used to be, but why the Nazi colors and symbol-ogy?
That's like the chinese taking Imperial Japan as a source.
Doesn't make sense, but dangerous nonetheless. |
A bit late on the reply, but here's my two cents:
Don't try to rationalise it. It's just white=good, non-white bad. You're probably more aware of the politics and history of their country than these idiots are. Any sort of political ideology they try to marry to their beliefs is secondary. They're angry and ignorant, and that's the end of it.
What gets me more is that it's springing up again in Germany. I mean, how can you look at the destruction Hitler brought upon that country and then turn around and say he had the right idea.
Or even worse, imagine being a veteran or the wife/widow of one and then see your grandson marching around in his boots with a shaved head and swaztika talking about the glory of the Nazis.
None of it is logic, which probably adds to their danger. |
Your assessment of it as coming from "ignorance" is almost as ignorant, I'm afraid, in that it fails to deal with the root.
The "root" is that they do not want to lose their culture, traditions, their language. They don't want the way of life that they have had for centuries to change. We can all identify with that. The problem is that their politicians have sold them out and only make their situation worse. Therefore, they are left to act on their own, sometimes in irrational ways.
It is a mistake to just dismiss them as ignorant. Irrational, emotional, dangerous, frustrated, maybe. Remember that situations like these can flare into something nasty. Take a look as the coop in Vanuatu, a few years back. It was caused by the same frustrations over loosing their quiet island culture to immigrants who wanted a modern western lifestyle.
The swastika bearers will disappear when the politicians stop selling out their people because there will no longer be fuel for the fire. Only a few of the hard core will be left.
So it is not just,
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| Don't try to rationalise it. It's just white=good, non-white bad. |
There is a logic behind their actions, just not IN their actions. I mean, Hitler was insane! And, certainly should not be the poster child for immigration reform movement. |
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| The coup took place in Fiji, but your point is well taken. People are afraid of losing their language, culture and identity to foreigners. Here in Estonia where I live, the Russian minority (there is a complicated history involved) wants Russian to be made an official language. As it is, many Russians here do not trouble themselves to learn Estonian. Now they want their language to be given equal status. In one high school in Tallinn that is made up of mostly Russians, the students recently were flying the Russian flag and demanded that only Russian be spoken in the school and that they be subject to Russian laws, not Estonian ones. |
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canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Thus stands exposed the fundamental hypocrisy of the Russian nationalist politicians and their followers. The people who are always complaining that "Russia is for Russians" and expressing concern about the declining population, are the very same ones trying to defend continuing Russian colonialism in places like Estonia.
If "Russia is for Russians", the Russian government can offer a free train ticket to all the Russians in the Baltics to return to the Motherland. And see how many people take them up on it. |
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expatella_girl
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 248
Location: somewhere out there
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| canucktechie wrote: |
If "Russia is for Russians", the Russian government can offer a free train ticket to all the Russians in the Baltics to return to the Motherland. And see how many people take them up on it. |
 Love that canucktechie.....good one....
That would be an empty train. |
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maruss
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Cyprus
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: Who wants to go back there?? |
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| Judging from the number of Russians here in Cyprus,especially Limassol and nowadays in the best areas of London etc as well,it seems nobody wants to go there unless they have to... |
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kazachka
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 220
Location: Moscow and Alaska
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: in the south |
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| revmira wrote: |
I live in Krasnodar and have a couple of friends who are from Zimbabwe studying here. When hanging out with them, I noticed that people always have some sort of oppinion- wheather they really want to know them, or say something rude. If you come here you will not have to mind being the center of attention. One of my friends is always offended by what people say rude, and he hates it here. The other takes it more in a stride and still makes an effort to talk to people.
People in general are very rascist but often on the street in the markets they are rude to everyone regarless of their race.
Many of my Russian friends have asked me why I am friends with black people. I admire you for wanting to come to and think that the more real contact Russians have with black people, they will become less rascist. I am from a state in the US where there were hardly any black people, I remember after I moved to the city and became friends with a more diverse crowd ---skin color was no longer a novelty. I think this is part of the problem in Russia- just the lack of contact.
Good luck |
I rememember when I was in high school in Krasnodar back in 90 and we had one black student in our group. Many locals had not yet seen blacks and would literally come up to him and rub his skin to see if the color came off  Later, when I went to university there, we had many African students mostly from Kenya studying mostly in the agriculture dept. By the mid 90s, they were less a novelty, but ppl still stared.
On a very sad note, 2 of my closest friends back in Anchorage who really want to visit me won't because they are afraid of either racially motivated attacks or the typical daily aggravation of a cop stop and bribe. I promised to look after both of them and even said, I've noticed many minorities esp Africans in my area. I suspect they are students at the Veterinary Academy given they are all about the student age.
Both of my Alaskan friends are brown. One is a 7th generation Mexican American in his early 60s (looks 40 smthg) and the other is Athabascan (Alaska Native) in his early 40s. My Athabascan friend would most likely be mistaken for a Central Asian or Siberian Native. He may still visit me in the coming yr, but is afraid because he will stand out. My Mexican friend was just about to use his Alaska dividend(the money you get paid for living there) last fall to buy a tic to come see me and then read about racial violence here and used the $$$ to go to France and follow the Tour De France instead. I'm really sad that the racial issues have put off two very close people to me from visiting  |
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lyndalorient
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 58
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| The thing is in Russia the "Russkiye" people ( the ethnic Russians- i.e European-looking Slavic people with names such as Ivanov, Petrov, etc) are about 80% of the populations, the other groups which are mainly either Turkic, Mongolo-Asiatic or Finno Ugric are also part of the country ( geographically)but they are only there because the original Duchy of Muscovy expanded so far East. |
I find that very interesting that Russians can be so racist as after all Russia covers a significant amount of Asian countries. A collegue of mine adopted a Russian child and she was Asian in race though apparently her mother was classified as white on the birth documents. Strange?
I wouldn t classify Russians as being like western Europe in any case. I am white, blonde and blue eyed and I don t believe I would be mistaken for a Russian (except in Egypt and the ME but you know what they are looking for  )
In Ireland Eastern Europeans can look very different to Western people ie Britain/Ireland/Netherlands/Germany. They normally have darker skin or eyes or facial features.
Thats why I can t understand how they can be racist and call them selves nazis when in fact Hitler considered eastern Europeans (Slavs) to be an inferior race to the aryan race (german and white) (even though slavs can be blonde and blue eyed). Thats why his plan was to spread east and conquer these people.
I don t know why some Russians are adopting the ideology of a regime that wanted them gone or enslaved 
Someone asked about Poland..
I have been there and all I can say is what lovely people they are. Very warm and welcoming. The attitudes towards race are fairly open minded with of course a few problems. I even know a Polish girl who has a black boyfriend and has had no problems.
The Poles really want to open up to the west after so many years of oppression from both Russia and Germany.
Eastern Europeans in general are not famous for being open and friendly. Even in Dublin immigrants from the east tend to stick together. I have worked and socialised with some and I hate to say it but I would say 90% have made racist comments about other immigrants in Dublin.
My Lithuanians friends are the worst for this. I know one girl who gave out constantly about Black/chinese using the welfare system (only thing was she was as well but she considered that to be ok)
Another girl (Lithuanian) stopped going to her local doctor because he was Jewish. I know several Italians who hated Chinese and Nigerians and siad they shouldn t be in Dublin
I often laugh when people ask me is Ireland racist ? As we have had a reputation - one that I think is unjust as i think its because we were a predominantly white country it must mean we have a problem with different races.
I can honestly say most Irish people don t but from my experience alot of our immigrants are racist against certain groups and even begrudge their right stay in Ireland (crazy I know as IMO they are all immigrants)
Ireland has had to cope with a massive influx of immigration nearly 300.00 immigrants amongst 4 million people is a massive change so there were some hiccups but overall its going well thanks to the economy I am sure.
For Russia it should not surely be such a shock but I am sure the dire state of their economy doesn t help..
Racism sadly exists everywhere. I would be weary about some counrties in Eastern Europe (especially Russia) But I can personaly recommend Poland as they were so welcoming and I spoke to mixed race couples who were having a great time. |
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