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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Belmont wrote: |
| no_exit wrote: |
| The teachers for my company get from 4000-8000RMB normal benefits, and they were working less than 20 hours a week, with no mandatory office hours and in fact no other obligations besides teaching. B. |
Those sound like very nice hours. 20 hours would be perfect. When it gets above that I find that the fun goes out of it because I get TIRED and sorta burnt out feeling by the end of the week. 
As for the nutters, they sound mild compared to some of the FT I've seen during my career in the Middle East. OMG!!! You talk about cookoooooo birds!!! lol |
those nutters in the ME are probably the so-called qualified ones too.
| Steppenwolf wrote: |
| Lobster wrote: |
| belmont wrote: |
| We do it because of the adventure. |
What others are prepared to accept for their services is their business, although I don't like seeing teachers depress wages to work in a scenic place like Kunming. I agree with Prof that the lowest one should accept for a full-time position anywhere should be 10k/month + benefits, and that in places like Shanghai, Beijing, etc. we should all be pushing for 250/hr.
RED |
Haha - grandiloquent! Let some push themselves out of the market. Most people are glad that a few do the talking while the many keep quiet doing their job and enjoyinglife as much as possible.
I wonder what "services" people who demand 250 an hour can deliver that others cannot deliver for less. If people really are in it for the money why do they not peddle their services back home or at least in a world city such as Singapore or Hong Kong?
Perhaps it's much easier talking about making that money than actually pocketing it. |
have to say i agree with this. vast majority of esl jobs in china are simply oral english classes for the masses. most private schools (so far as i've seen) are paying freelancers between RMB120-150 per hour. most schools/people will pass on the BMW (RMB250/hour teacher) and take the VW (RMB120/hour teacher) since it'll still get you from A to B.
lobster, your list of criteria is impressive. i find i dont meet all of them myself, but then again, i'm willing to wager 99.9% of esl teachers dont either. thats why a starting wage of RMB250 for most teachers is unreasonable to ask. of course i'd take it if i could get it, but i cant..... but because i meet criteria #12 i dont really care either LOL |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Never, Ever Help |
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| HunanForeignGuy wrote: |
I learned a big lesson on this Board. I don't help newbies in China anymore. Not ever.
First there was this Canadian girl. She begged me and begged me to help her get a job. On this board. And I did -- because otherwise she was not so hireable (not diploma, no TESOL, no experience, greener than a green bean). As soon as she got the job, I received buckets of sh** all over me. It's like the kindness never happened.
So from now on, when I see a foreigner laying prostrate on the ground (aka on this Board), well, either one of two things : I won't help at all (that is a given) or I will simply not help at all.
HFG |
Now, there is a contrary version of a situation sounding remarkably similar to this, which I'm happy to pass on to the moderators, but not to post here.
As for not helping Damsels in Distress anymore, well I glad his vow didn't last! With a plethora of influential contacts gleaned from working at many schools, and what with speaking eight languages, Katja was honored to learn from HFG that:
| Quote: |
| 4. Next, if you PM me, I will put in contact with a university in Hangzhou that has NO problem hiring foreign teachers who are non-native with a little experience and they offer a decent package; |
Any questions about this being on topic should be referenced against the thread title. |
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Ahchoo
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 606
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Never, Ever Help |
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| eslstudies wrote: |
| HunanForeignGuy wrote: |
I learned a big lesson on this Board. I don't help newbies in China anymore. Not ever.
First there was this Canadian girl. She begged me and begged me to help her get a job. On this board. And I did -- because otherwise she was not so hireable (not diploma, no TESOL, no experience, greener than a green bean). As soon as she got the job, I received buckets of sh** all over me. It's like the kindness never happened.
So from now on, when I see a foreigner laying prostrate on the ground (aka on this Board), well, either one of two things : I won't help at all (that is a given) or I will simply not help at all.
HFG |
Now, there is a contrary version of a situation sounding remarkably similar to this, which I'm happy to pass on to the moderators, but not to post here.
As for not helping Damsels in Distress anymore, well I glad his vow didn't last! With a plethora of influential contacts gleaned from working at many schools, and what with speaking eight languages, Katja was honored to learn from HFG that:
| Quote: |
| 4. Next, if you PM me, I will put in contact with a university in Hangzhou that has NO problem hiring foreign teachers who are non-native with a little experience and they offer a decent package; |
Any questions about this being on topic should be referenced against the thread title. |
What the hecks this all about? |
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Yu
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 1219
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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I thought this was an old post....
Seems some people just repeat the same patterns. |
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NF
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:57 am Post subject: |
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This is in reference to an earlier post submitted by HFG about the "green bean" canuck who begged him to help her find a job and HFG came to my rescue and I showed my appreciation by 'sh***ing on him.
I would like to clarify the misrepresentation of the facts.
First of all, I am an accredited environmental professional on sabbatical from one of Ottawa's largest employer, who by the way, has guaranteed to hire me when I return. I have two college diplomas and was TESOL certified before arriving in China. My previous career was in broadcasting, 5+ years and I spent several years volunteering in the primary school system. It may not be a BA but I would suggest that my English skills and professional background certainly translate into some marketability.
HFG did in fact offer help and I accepted but I would disagree that I was begging for his assistance. He'd responded to a general query post I'd submitted. He put me in touch with his FAO and I was to join him at a uni he was teaching at. However, when the FAO left and matters at the uni apparently deteriorated, HFG decided not to renew his contract and warned me it was a very bad place and I should, under no circumstance pursue the earlier offer.
He then put me in touch with two recruiters and another former employer. And he did assist in so far as to what I should be looking for in the offers. I remember him telling me that at one of the school, negotiating a driver to take me into the city on weekends was a must. As a rookie, I would not have had a clue that these matters were negotiable.
I decided I wanted to head north and HFG, being familiar with this area assured me I would be pleased. I was and I still am. Northern Inner Mongolia is lovely but my location has a few more zeros than the 5,000 stated. I got this job through one of the recruiter's recommended by HFG. Once I started dealing with the recruiter, the details were worked out by myself, the school and the recruiter with some input from HFG. I received the very same contract that the other FT here had, no more, no less.
After securing my post and prior to my leaving for China, HFG asked me to post something on this board about the 'very bad' uni where he was still employed. I was to direct all queries about the uni to him. I felt uncomfortable doing this and asked to have the post retracted because I had had no direct contact with the school. A colleague of his called him on the thread, suggesting HFG should have been up front and not asked for a proxy posting.
I believe it was my refusal to act as a go between that angered HFG. After I said I did not want to do this, he sent me a rather nasty note and said I'd been very ungrateful. I wished him well and that was that. |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Never, Ever Help |
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[quote="eslstudies"]
| HunanForeignGuy wrote: |
First there was this Canadian girl. She begged me and begged me to help her get a job. On this board. And I did -- because otherwise she was not so hireable (not diploma, no TESOL, no experience, greener than a green bean). As soon as she got the job, I received buckets of sh** all over me. It's like the kindness never happened.
HFG |
However, "the girl" [in her thirties btw, writes
| Quote: |
First of all, I am an accredited environmental professional on sabbatical from one of Ottawa's largest employer, who by the way, has guaranteed to hire me when I return. I have two college diplomas and was TESOL certified before arriving in China |
I first read NF's account some months back on a different forum where we both post, and where she enjoys high credibility.
So, who to believe? I think I know, based on track records at any rate. |
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Girl Scout
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 525
Location: Inbetween worlds
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| I have invested a lot of time reading seven pages of posts. Is there an end to this story? |
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Ahchoo
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 606
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Girl Scout wrote: |
| I have invested a lot of time reading seven pages of posts. Is there an end to this story? |
Bad investment I'd say 
You did notice that the thread ran in Oct 2006 untill it was recently revived didn't you. |
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Tezcatlipoca
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 1214
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
| 1. A good, relevant degree from a respected uni. |
It's not in English, but it is in International Relations with a minor in East Asian History, both of which require more than a little ability to write and communicate.
| Lobster wrote: |
| 2. Post-graduate EFL training. |
No check. I was intending on teaching for one year before going home to teach history. It turned into 3 1/2 years when I got married. I know that it could possibly increase my salary, but it's not guaranteed. And as this isn't my career, it's not worth the cost.
| Lobster wrote: |
| 3. Over 10 years of teaching experience. |
I would venture to say that the majority of teachers coming here are in the 22-28 range... impossible for them to have 10 years of teaching experience. So, what should they lose off the 250/hour for that?
| Lobster wrote: |
| 4. Good basic Chinese and negotiation skills. |
Again, most people coming here don't have that. What does speaking Chinese have to do with teaching English anyway (where most of us are forbidden from speaking Chinese in the classroom)?
| Lobster wrote: |
| 5. A calm demeanour and a positive, energetic classroom presence. |
Fair enough.
| Lobster wrote: |
| 6. Being flexible about everything but money -- knowing the market. |
How would a new teacher "know the market"? What is each variable's flexibility? Housing? Transportation? Health insurance? Air fare?
| Lobster wrote: |
| 7. Staying in one place long enough to establish a good reputation. |
Again, not applicable for new teachers... but for older teachers, yes... it does help (to some extent).
| Lobster wrote: |
| 8. Developing connections with schools and teachers. |
Not possible for new people.
| Lobster wrote: |
| 9. Having a full range of quality materials and presentations ready to go. |
For private lessons, yes... but private lessons don't bank you a visa and not everyone wants to work illegally (for 10 years). For schools, they almost invariably have a curriculum that you are responsible for implementing.
| Lobster wrote: |
| 10. Solid subject knowledge that includes all aspects of English teaching. |
Fair enough. Kind of... people have specializations, even English majors. One who is practiced in the art of poetry composition may not be as studied in the art of business writing.
| Lobster wrote: |
| 11. Confidence about my own value and my ability to meet student expectations. |
Confidence? Good. Cockiness (and I fall prey to this sometimes)? Not so good.
| Lobster wrote: |
| 12. Having enough cash on hand so that I never really NEED the work. |
That does allow one to pick and choose, but isn't always possible. If a student attended Harvard as an English major on grants and loans, they're unlikely to be able to have enough money saved. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Again, most people coming here don't have that. What does speaking Chinese have to do with teaching English anyway (where most of us are forbidden from speaking Chinese in the classroom)? |
Just as much as your L1 did in your L2 classrooms (can you remember that far back - you know those short-cuts where rules of language were explained in your L1 - being aided and motivated in your class during that period when you didn't have enough L2 ability to use it as a language of communication ) - this Tezcatlipoca sounds a real expert. But then again he might want to tell us why Chinese has no place in the Chinese English classroom - maybe he believes in that simple rational, the more English the students hear the more they will learn (regardless of whether they understand it or not) |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Pretty dusty old thread! Still, the question was what one could do to get a better-than-average wage here. I admit that if you're a newb or a hack, it's not going to be that easy to hit the high-wage mark, but if you are in it for the long haul and want to make a good living, these are some things that will help you get there.
RED |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
Pretty dusty old thread!
RED |
I revived the thread because a teacher lambasted by HFG on the first page of this thread for her:
1] ingratitude [whereas in fact he pointed her to a recruiter]
2] her lack of qualifications [she is quite possibly better qualified than him]
finally became aware of his post and exercised her right of reply on this page. See NF's post above.
HFG is surely aware of this, but is refusing to discuss the issue with her.
I realise that this case of belittling some one else to help build a myth of one's own good-guy-done wrong by status is "old", but that's too bad. |
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u24tc
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Stupidity is not an excuse.
Take her passport till she has paid off her bf's debt.
And her bf is an idiot. |
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sultansofping
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 188
Location: Home!
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ugly FT situation ... what would you do? (long) |
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| no_exit wrote: |
To be 100% completely honest, I've even considered telling the branch office to take the girlfriend's passport until she's paid back the money they've borrowed and telling the boyfriend to figure it out on his own. I feel like such a jackass for even typing that, but I feel betrayed by these people. At the same time, I do know that, careless as they were about their visas and their funds, some things *were* out of their control. Why would his request for a tourist visa be denied in HK anyhow? And HK is wicked expensive, I know, although I feel like even there a couple thousand RMB should last at least more than a day ... but anyhow.
So. What would you do? This forum sees an awful lot of complaining about this school or that school, but here's a situation from the other side. What should a school do when a FT puts them in a lose/lose situation? Best case scenario, of course, would be that the school lends them the money they claim they need, the male teacher returns to the school, and they work off their debt and go on their merry way. But can I afford to take a gamble on this pair again? Help me out folks, I'm at my wit's end here. |
dont lend them anymore, take the passport, they are messing you around, do it to them, go on, go on, go on, be the bas tard |
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sultansofping
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 188
Location: Home!
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahchoo wrote: |
| Girl Scout wrote: |
| I have invested a lot of time reading seven pages of posts. Is there an end to this story? |
Bad investment I'd say
You did notice that the thread ran in Oct 2006 untill it was recently revived didn't you. |
damn i made that same mistake, never blood noticed that was it oct 2006!!!!!!!!!!! now its just two EFLers moaning at each other |
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