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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| or they have holes in their arms where all the money goes, |
Prime responce.....Mr. Purvis |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| That is the poiont: since FTs with relevant linguistic and pedagogic specialisiation won't be used according to their vocation it is difficult to argue their salaries should be even higher thean they already are. |
If the Chinese take the trouble to employ qualified specialists then the argument for higher wages stand - surely then its their fault if they under use those teachers - but they can't expect that we will the understand and accept that they pay us that low wage because of their professional incompetence in not utalising our special skills 
But of course that argument is made mute by the number of - unqualified teachers working in this market - indeed many so-called teachers not even possessing bachelor qualifications - the kind of folk who seem so much more willing to take a fling at this job for few months or so to pay for their travels - teachers that so many educational institutions are tempted to use because of the fact that a few more yuan can be made and slipped into a few more Chinese pockets. Steppenwolf as someone who depends on this place for your living - are you happy with this situation  - after you left your 2 years employment in that kindergarten - what kind of teacher filled your boots |
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KidfromBrooklyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Behind the Bamboo Firewall
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: Well Said |
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Well said vikdk. 
Not a respectable offer for an individual who has EARNED his or her degree and conducts him or herself in a respectablel manner, in concert with the laws and decrees of the Peoples Republic of China.
Those who are without degrees as required by the employment specifications must face the wind or be swept away by it. |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Well Said |
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| KidfromBrooklyn wrote: |
Well said vikdk.
Not a respectable offer for an individual who has EARNED his or her degree and conducts him or herself in a respectablel manner, in concert with the laws and decrees of the Peoples Republic of China.
Those who are without degrees as required by the employment specifications must face the wind or be swept away by it. |
Vikdk said nothing well; he was once again shooting his mouth off and repeating for the umpteenth time that Chinese slave-drivers overowrk their FTs or something; in another thread he went so far as to proclaim that we must all show solidarity with fellow FTs - against our Chinese employers? What kind of black-and-white mindsetr is that?
He did ask one question that I cannot answer: who took over from me in that kindergarten?
I mention this because this is a truly interesting question albeit for different reasons than vikdk likes to think.
Kindergartens in the West usually have no teachers on their payroll; they hire staff with specific kindergarten-related professional backgrounds. Kindergarten professionals don't end up working in schools and vice versa.
But in China this is commonly the case; any kindy in Guangdong (at least those two dozen or so I know) have regular subject teachers (maths, English, CHiense and other subjects). This demonstrates that Chiense view a kindergarten as just another form of school; if vikdk allows himself to be hired as an English teacher there that's his business, (and I did the same, as he pointed out).
But he ought to be so frank as to admit that he gets paid considerably better in a Chinese kindy than many teachers get paid at a primary school because kindies attract custom from wealthy parents (kindergarten education is not compulsory).
In western countries, kindergaertwen employees enjoy a much lower status and lower pay - at least that was the case last time I visited a western country. There are some exceptions but on the whole, kindies there offer less attractive pay packages while china does the opposite.
I continue to cateogrically refute that nonsensical claim that our salaries are slave wages; this is a personal opinion (and it reflects a mindsetthat is questionable in an educational environment)./ You can all express your dissatisfaction with the pay scales offered in China but if you really do make that much more money more power and more money for you and you won't have to go round proclaiming it to all and sundry. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Vikdk said nothing well; he was once again shooting his mouth off and repeating for the umpteenth time that Chinese slave-drivers overowrk their FTs or something; in another thread he went so far as to proclaim that we must all show solidarity with fellow FTs - against our Chinese employers? What kind of black-and-white mindsetr is that? |
deary me steppenwolf - solidarity isn't such a bad thing, even if its practical employment for the good of general FT working conditions is a bit of an unrealistic pipe-dream  And by the way Steppenwolf I'm not anti-employer - rather anti bad conditions which are "sometimes" the responsibility of the employer!!! Now is that such a bad thing to be
as for saying nothing - well I could find you guilty on that score aswell - where was a convincing answer to my first question? To refresh your memory - here it is again -
But of course that argument is made mute by the number of - unqualified teachers working in this market - indeed many so-called teachers not even possessing bachelor qualifications - the kind of folk who seem so much more willing to take a fling at this job for few months or so to pay for their travels - teachers that so many educational institutions are tempted to use because of the fact that a few more yuan can be made and slipped into a few more Chinese pockets. Steppenwolf as someone who depends on this place for your living - are you happy with this situation
By the way steppenwolf - take this as a question relating to education as a whole - not just kindies. |
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Long ai gu
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The reason I teach in China for these low wages is because I'm lazy. I work about 4 hours a week at a college for 4000RMB. I make a little more on the side. I could make a lot more on the side but I'm lazy. I guess i could of went to university but I'm lazy. Why live in China? it's a great way to be lazy. I'm a musician who likes KAOS, laziness, booze, dope, chinese girls, laziness, yelling at Chinese people, being a glutton, laziness and other things related to laziness like spirituality and talking to ghosts, I can't read I can't spell, I don't know how to use commas properly, I like risking my life daily by crossing the street, I like giving money to garbage collectors-which is what I was doing in my own country before I got here, I like peeing on sidewalks in front of people and the smell of urine, awaking every morning at 6 to an electronic bugle and military shouting, did I mention laziness, breaking condoms, having illegitimate children, breathing dirty air and wiping it from my eyes, sitting in front of a computer, being misunderstood, playing my guitar and singing lazy songs, playing drums and being a bum, showering every morning however difficult that may sound and brushing my teeth because I have too, oh yeah I shave too AND I'M THE BEST GALL DARNED ESL TEACHER THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER SEEN!!!! 1+1=These are the reasons why I work for 4000RMB and I live in China. Thank you for being you and God bless you all...I would personally invite any abusive suggestions pertaining to my current career...This message has been brought to you by the makers of LOVE.,.,. |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Long on lies
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| I work about 4 hours a week at a college for 4000RMB. |
There isn't a college in China that pays 250 per hr. |
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Long ai gu
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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This week I'm working only 2 hours and the other foreign teacher here is leaving at the semester so if you want a job that pays 250RMB per hour come be my neighbour sweetheart we'll get along wonderfully...  PS: Do you like young military boys? |
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Long ai gu
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Long ai gu on Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Long ai gu
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| LONG ON LOVE BABY. BELIEVE IT OR NOT MY FRIEND NOTHING I HAVE SAID IS A LIE. GODBLESS |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Long ai gu wrote: |
| LONG ON LOVE BABY. BELIEVE IT OR NOT MY FRIEND NOTHING I HAVE SAID IS A LIE. GODBLESS |
Brings back memories of Richard M. Nixon, "I am not a crook!" |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Also reminds me of Michael Richards:
Fifty years ago we'd of had you hanging upside down with a fork up yur arse. He's a TROLL, TROLL, TROLL, TROLL. Throw his arse out. HE'S A TROLL! |
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Long ai gu
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| I respect you, I respect your opinions, but I would never attack you personally. |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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The reason so many unqualified people come to china is because the positions pay so poorly, and because of the huge demand.
If jobs in china payed many times what they do, then the positions would attract many many more professinoals with the right credentials. That they are often willnig to accept people of lesser quality and qualifications is simply because of the shortage of more qualified people applying for the jobs.
Not very different in america. Teaching their pays relativly little when compared to the amount of work and hours one must work, not to mention how thankless a job it can be, one of the many reasons I gave it up. Now, if the job payed what it was worth, I might have stuck around for the BS, and people who were more educated, and better at teaching then your average teacher, would apply in the first place.
It's really not very complicated to figure out. Huge demand, relatively low pay, not a lot of the best and brightest will apply, that leaves the runners up folks and the bottom of the barrel types.
They are not really part of the problem, it is the huge demand, low wages, and lack of qualified people willing to work for what to them is peanuts. Sure, some will do it for reasons which are wide ranging, but most of the people with the best educations and skills will not come here to work for so little. Hence, the scabs and the underqualified. They are not the problem though, believe me. |
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Bayden
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| NathanRahl wrote: |
The reason so many unqualified people come to china is because the positions pay so poorly, and because of the huge demand.
If jobs in china payed many times what they do, then the positions would attract many many more professinoals with the right credentials. That they are often willnig to accept people of lesser quality and qualifications is simply because of the shortage of more qualified people applying for the jobs.
Not very different in america. Teaching their pays relativly little when compared to the amount of work and hours one must work, not to mention how thankless a job it can be, one of the many reasons I gave it up. Now, if the job payed what it was worth, I might have stuck around for the BS, and people who were more educated, and better at teaching then your average teacher, would apply in the first place.
It's really not very complicated to figure out. Huge demand, relatively low pay, not a lot of the best and brightest will apply, that leaves the runners up folks and the bottom of the barrel types.
They are not really part of the problem, it is the huge demand, low wages, and lack of qualified people willing to work for what to them is peanuts. Sure, some will do it for reasons which are wide ranging, but most of the people with the best educations and skills will not come here to work for so little. Hence, the scabs and the underqualified. They are not the problem though, believe me. |
What do you mean 'THEY' ?
MOD EDIT
| Quote: |
The reason so many unqualified people come to china is because the positions pay so poorly, and because of the huge demand.
If jobs in china payed (PAID) many times what they do, then the positions would attract many many more professinoals (PROFESSIONALS) with the right credentials. That they are often willnig ( WILLING) to accept people of lesser quality and qualifications is simply because of the shortage of more qualified people applying for the jobs.
Not very different in america. Teaching their (there) pays relativly little when compared to the amount of work and hours one must work, not to mention how thankless a job it can be, one of the many reasons I gave it up. Now, if the job payed (PAID) what it was worth, I might have stuck around for the BS, and people who were more educated, and better at teaching then your average teacher, would apply in the first place.
It's really not very complicated to figure out. Huge demand, relatively low pay, not a lot of the best and brightest will apply, that leaves the runners up folks and the bottom of the barrel types.
They are not really part of the problem, it is the huge demand, low wages, and lack of qualified people willing to work for what to them is peanuts. Sure, some will do it for reasons which are wide ranging, but most of the people with the best educations and skills will not come here to work for so little. Hence, the scabs and the underqualified. They are not the problem though, believe me. |
MOD EDIT |
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