Job Discussion Forums

[coledavis]

Well, I can only speak of a couple of years ago, when I did my CELTA, but English teaching was very poorly paid then with the exception of, I think, South Korea and Japan. Was it really ever any different? I'd be interested in knowing the answer, although preferably without all this stuff about poison.

[BELS]

[BELS]

[BELS]

[BELS]

[BELS]

[coledavis]

I'm not sure, even if they get good deals, that TEFLers are likely to be driving BMWs and the like.

[rusmeister]

I don't know about this poison stuff, either. We post what teachers are actually paid, then to understand the significance of it I throw in what things actually cost now - and inflation has gone nuts in the last few months - and it's all verifiable fact, not opinion.

Bels, I agree with your sentiment. I think people like Deano most probably object to the emotional tone and subjective comments (like saying Russians will tell you not to buy cheap stuff - that's a significant overgeneralization). Again, I agree with your points overall.

Speaking to other posts...
What is really wrong about the idea that ESL is a monkey job is the assumption that it requires no training or experience - that reveals a deep contempt for the people who want to learn English. For most people, the ability to learn a language from start to finish, particularly as an adult, doesn't come naturally and they need a teacher who knows what they need and how to give it. This cannot be done by a 'temp monkey' - it requires a person who preferably has studied and achieved success with foreign language learning themselves, and knows how the English language is built. The mere ability to speak it, or even having attended a college somewhere, does not confer this. From teaching phonemes and the verb 'to be' to understanding and explaining the present perfect verb tense and articles to advanced sentence inversion and things like the differences between homonyms, homophones and homographs, it's a complex gamut where learners benefit tremendously from having experienced teachers and complain all the time about the inexperienced ones. The ability to deliver is just as important as the knowledge of the subject.

So yes, you can show up somewhere for a minimum wage (while the school takes 10 times your gross take from the students), having little knowledge or experience worth anything, but the students will curse you (and your school) when they realize they really didn't learn all that much from you.

Counter accusations of hidden agendas. Please, people, we know that career teachers would like to see fewer backpackers and that owners of schools or DOS's would like to see more cheap backpackers. The thing is, the sympathies of most of the world, aka students, are largely going to be with the career teachers - that's who they want teaching them.

[BELS]

[BELS]

[BELS]

Good post Rusmeister. So how much do you think a school gets from each teacher. Let's come up with a low easy marketable figure, like
2,000 rublees per academic hour (per 3/4 hour in Russia) for say 10 pupils in a class. That's 80,000 rublees per week. About 320,000 rublees per month. About �6,400 a month or more than $12,800 a month. What a lovely figure to have, don't you think.

I think I would be much happier sitting back employing muggins EFL teachers and collecting all that cash. Lovely jubbly.

[coledavis]

My point about economic forces wasn't to suggest that people are 'monkeys' - to be a graduate with some type of additional teacher training qualification certainly doesn't mean that - but that they are fairly widely spread as a (sorry) commodity. I would add that to teach WELL is less common, but unfortunately, the market as a whole is not particularly sensitive. As others have quite rightly pointed out, many organisations are keener on the high profit margin than on the quality of the product.

[BELS]

[maruss]

Thanks for your contributions everyone, both oldies and newcomers!
There are some really nice places just outside Moscow where the horrors of the city still seem a million miles away, but just as Bels says they are rapidly being eroded by an influx of elitist speculators or those who are desperate to see some greenery and breath clean air!These gated compounds,Zhukovka style, are really worrying and frankly sinister-who are these people and what have they done that makes them so anxious to cut themselves off from everyone else?
I once taught a lovely 17 year old girl who lived in one of them and despite having everything she asked for materially,she was desperately lonely and unhappy because she was rarely allowed to go outside and mix with what she called 'real' people and share their lives and their problems like a normal friend etc.Her father explained to me that they were afraid she could be kidnapped etc. if anyone knew who she was!He finally allowed her to go study in London and she called me to say she is enjoying every minute of it.....

[canucktechie]