Job Discussion Forums

[Glenski]

Just so you get the figures completely right, I believe that 12.7% drop was an annual rate, not a quarterly one. They extrapolated from the latest quarterly figures.

[JL]

[elkarlo]

[cafebleu]

Great thread!

Japan is in worse shape than the govt would have everybody believe. So is the US and my home country the UK for that matter.

It was interesting reading about how consumption patterns for some Japanese have not changed. However, think of the fact that much of this has been based on the unmarried men and women in their 20s and 30s who have had jobs and mostly lived with their parents.

Unlike Brits of my generation who got out early and paid rent or if they stayed home, paid 'board' to their parents (which was sometimes comparable in cost though cheaper), the Japanese younger workers have generally lived scot free in terms of housing expenses/food etc. Therefore that section of the J population had a high disposable income to spend on what they liked including designer gear and travel.

Those days are coming to an end as the Japanese quite rightly will turn to the tradition of savings to see them through the hard times. Think of the fact too that in a real economic downturn, women will be hit very hard in terms of low employment opportunities.

When I lived in Japan there were relatively few opportunities for women to have a real career apart from working in offices. Why do you think there are all those half baked 'women's colleges' with mediocre academic standards? They were mostly founded to give girls something to do in between high school graduation and marriage.

As companies lay off male workers, women will also lose their jobs. There will be even less opportunities for women, and less disposable income circulating in the economy. The Japanese also had a relatively high number of people travelling abroad since the late 70s, compared to countries such as the US. You'll also see that decline and far more sharply than you think.

JAL and ANA are doing worse and worse and some of this is due to declining passenger numbers. There will be less Japanese people travelling outside of Japan to destinations that are not in Asia.

Interesting comments too about the homeless and why the Japanese don't help those on the streets. There are cultural-historical reasons (same in Korea). The Japanese and Koreans I knew often glorified their family ties and the strength of families in their societies but as history shows, an overt emphasis on kinship to the exclusion of those who are not part of the family hinders the development of the notion of civil society where governing bodies emphasise an obligation to society as a whole.

In Korea this still exists to the point where seeing people in agony after they've been run over by a hit and run driver (often when the driver just ran through the pedestrian crossing although it was green for the pedestrian) while nobody except for the despised foreigner offers help, or in other bad situations, is a shocking and sadly common experience.

If we haven't been introduced I don't know you and don't have to extend even the minor courtesy of holding a door for you instead of slamming it in your face is common in Korea. The 'You are not my family/I haven't been introduced to you' is also common in Japan although in practice it is far less rude than the Korean version.

Hence there is no tradition of charitable institutions in Japan. And Buddhism also played a role in demeaning the outcasts and needy, much as I admire the ideas of Buddhism.

In Japan, many Buddhist monasteries and institutions traditionally upheld the outcast status of Burakumin until after the first decade or so of the 20th century.

In fact a few years back, Buddhist groups made public apologies for the Buddhist role in facilitating the discrimination against Burakumin. How many posters know that for centuries in Japan Buddhist monks gave new names to the deceased for a fee and in the case of Burakumin, many would give a name with associations of animals? I remember being shocked by hearing this from a group of private students who were ladies in their late 40s and yes, were Buddhists from different sects.

There is also the practical consideration that the Yakuza take a cut from those who beg on the streets. Same in Korea. That's why I rarely gave to those people with signs asking for money and sitting there for hours on the street. The Yaks take their cut so you are best off donating to a shelter that takes care of the homeless and others who are left to struggle in Japan.

[JL]

Cafeblue,
I hadn't thought about the Yakuza shaking down the street people. But I know for a fact they shake street vendors (for a very brief time, in my younger days, I was was a vendor who had to pay my monthly dues to "the boys." And no, my eagle-eyed moderator friends, I don't recommend to anyone to try that experience.). They shake down real estate developers. They shake down politicians. They shake down virtually anyone running otherwise legitimate, street level business in districts like Shinjuku. So why wouldn't they shake down the street people too?

Ditto the info about the Buddhist monks ripping off the Buraku when relatives would request a better name in the afterlife. Hadn't heard that, but don't find such accounts hard to believe. Well, a lot of old-world traditions die hard in a closed society such as Japan's. But we'll see how things shake out from the economic turmoil. Sometimes things need a good shaking.

[Apsara]

[JL]

Apsara,
I'm not sure that's the type of activity that gets much coverage in the Japanese media. And I seriously doubt the foreign media is privy to much of the street scene in Japan. Can't say I recall ever seeing a beggar in Japan with a tin cup or sign set up, like we can see in the West. But I know for a fact that the homeless tent towns have their leaders (親分). And as we discussed about a week ago, apparently the homeless are on the increase, and more and more noticeable, these days. In neighborhoods where the Yakuza have a presence, they make anybody doing "anything" in the street, pay a tribute. I have zero doubt that they make people residing in the parks and on the street, also pay at least a token amount. There's no way they'd allow that, or anything else illegal, to take place outside of their purview. That's their turf.

[Glenski]

[elkarlo]

[JL]