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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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 Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Cool Teacher ,
Even though I love your avatar, I still think Soul Cal's comments are right on. You can take the piss, and add something to the discussion. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
| Cool Teacher ...I love your avatar! |
Thanks! 
Anyway, yes my problem is that we shouldn't all be like, "Oooh the Japanese need to learn..." I think it is cheeky especially when your in a nother country.  Now, id a tribe of Masai Mara from Kenya start walking down the street dreesed in tribal gear in wherever SoulCal is from I will bet you my *beep* that the people in that place will gape and gawp in ways you've never seen the majotity of Japanese gape and gawp. 
In Japan, people stare a little. But like other s have said this may just be curiosty and I think curisoty is better then not caring at all. It seems the Japanese can't win sometimes and they all get tarred with the same brush. Its like me saying "Wow! Scottich are so stingy! or the French are so smelly or Americans are so fat!" or other stereotypes. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I hear you, but there's a difference when you see certain actions being displayed on a day to day basis versus some generalization based on a one time visit or seeing one TV program.
It reminds me of a discussion on another forum where the the guys who ran it were trying to defend a Japanese girl's statement "I don't want to sit next to the Gaijin" to her boyfriend by trying to find something I did, when I actually wasn't even looking at the woman in question (my head was buried in my book, really)
their answers
1) I was staring at her (see above statement about where I was looking)
2) she didn't want to sit next to a male (but look at what she said)
3) she didn't want to sit next a large male (see 2#)
4) she didn't want to sit without her boyfriend sitting beside her (see 2#)
Sometimes you just have to face up to the situation. I'm not sure the Japanese to need to 'learn' anything, though certainly if they want more 'international' understanding, you don't behave like everyone else is beneath you (or couldn't possibly understand you, because your culture is beyond understanding to outsiders  ). Acting like primative village locals seeing their first outside visitor ever every time you see a non-Japanese doesn't exactly mark you as cosmopolitan either IMO.
| Quote: |
| Anyway, yes my problem is that we shouldn't all be like, "Oooh the Japanese need to learn..." I think it is cheeky especially when your in a nother country. Now, id a tribe of Masai Mara from Kenya start walking down the street dreesed in tribal gear in wherever SoulCal is from I will bet you my *beep* that the people in that place will gape and gawp in ways you've never seen the majotity of Japanese gape and gawp. |
You don't get out much, do you  ? Did you think the clothes we're wearing are that different from what the Japanese are wearing?
And chances are many people in SC's neighborhood wouldn't bat an eyelid at the Masai, maybe just figure the guy is an extra in a movie or dressed up in his own style. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Oh sure I'm not saying no Japanses people stare or whatever but they dont do it that mush and I think it is only a small minority. Maybe in the countryside it si more common but in the big cities theres not much.
Also, I don't say that it is good for a Japanese person to say, "I won't sit next to the gaijin!" I'm not defending that so I think you are making a strawman here But here's a question: How many gaijin try to avoid sitting next to other gaijin on the trains? I think that happens quite often. I know that sometimes gaijin have looked at me and I smiled at them and then they looked away and started pretending they didn't see me.  Then they do a strange kind of crab walk up the train trying to keep their head looking away from me and then sit down in a seat not close to me. I don't look wierd! I only have one head but most Japanese don't deliberatly avoid me I think.
| Quote: |
| You don't get out much, do you |
I know. My girlfirend haas a big thumb and I'm under it!   |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| Bread wrote: |
| Does anybody else often find themselves being next to the only empty seat left on the train? I don't think I stink... |
There isn't really a polite way to mention this...
In all candor, it is likely that you do smell differently to the locals.
Our Western diet creates a body odor that many in Asia find offensive.
"'Too much butter and red meat"
Friends have told me to try to eat fish, veggies and no butter for a few weeks before my trip to China, to make it less offensive to those already there.
This is what I have been told by those I know who live in SEA.
It is something I will be mindful of when I begin to teach in close proximity to those with a very different diet than I. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Cool Teacher wrote: |
| Oh sure I'm not saying no Japanses people stare or whatever but they dont do it that mush and I think it is only a small minority. Maybe in the countryside it si more common but in the big cities theres not much. |
I disagree.
Riding my slow local train that snaked through my inaka environs of Shizuoka prefecture for two years, the locals were always extremely cordial to me. There was never an uncomfortable moment for me like the ones that have been mentioned throughout these posts.
I don't think the inaka/big city dichotomy can hold much water in this discussion.
Regarding the locals not wanting to sit next to me, I only relished that. After long days of being out and about, I always cherished the space and solitude of having that empty seat next to me. I'm not going to complain about this.
Regards,
fat_chris |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
Our Western diet creates a body odor that many in Asia find offensive.
"'Too much butter and red meat"
It is something I will be mindful of when I begin to teach in close proximity to those with a very different diet than I. |
This is a common misconception which I think is an excuse for racism when some people come out with it, but I'm afraid that what you eat won't make a lot of difference. Body odour (other than when hygiene is the cause) is a genetic thing rather than a diet-related thing. I know vegetarians who have body odour and omnivores (of all nationalities) who don't. Garlic is a prevalent enough part of the modern Japanese diet that I sometimes find myself not wanting to sit next to some people here.
Caucasians, very generally speaking, seem to be more likely to have body odour than many Asians, but it has very little to do with diet. Incidentally, the modern Japanese diet might not be all that different to what you are used to- it's not all sushi and pickled daikon, by a long shot. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Cool teacher posted
| Quote: |
| But here's a question: How many gaijin try to avoid sitting next to other gaijin on the trains? I think that happens quite often. I know that sometimes gaijin have looked at me and I smiled at them and then they looked away and started pretending they didn't see me. Then they do a strange kind of crab walk up the train trying to keep their head looking away from me and then sit down in a seat not close to me. |
That's a new one on me. I mean the not sitting next to me (assuming that was the only seat, you know, there is no law that says he/she needs to sit next to me). As to other foreigners not looking/talking to you, that's their business if they feel uncomfortable. Just like you don't expect strangers to warm up to you automatically in your home country, I wouldn't expect it here.
cool teacher posted
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| I know. My girlfirend haas a big thumb and I'm under it! |
I know the feeling, and you haven't even gotten married yet. I suppose you can look at as 'practice for the future' .
fat chris posted
| Quote: |
| Regarding the locals not wanting to sit next to me, I only relished that. |
I hear you, and I feel the same too sometimes. Then again, it's sometmes nice to not have people avoid you like you have the plague or something. Actually, I'm in Tokyo, so it's not exactly small town thing. If anything, that empty seat should be more inviting.
norwalkesl posted
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| In all candor, it is likely that you do smell differently to the locals. |
Yes, I don't smoke, so I don't reek like some of the middle-aged Japanese guys that do choose to sit next to me.
norwalkesl posted
| Quote: |
Our Western diet creates a body odor that many in Asia find offensive.
"'Too much butter and red meat" |
Depends on the person.
norwalkesl posted
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| Friends have told me to try to eat fish, veggies and no butter for a few weeks before my trip to China, to make it less offensive to those already there. |
That's a good one. Any chance you're going to Guangzhou, where over half the dishes have pork in them?
norwalkesl posted
| Quote: |
This is what I have been told by those I know who live in SEA.
It is something I will be mindful of when I begin to teach in close proximity to those with a very different diet than I. |
Pheew, I keep smelling bullshit here. Have any of your friends tried natto yet?
aspara posted
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| Caucasians, very generally speaking, seem to be more likely to have body odour than many Asians, but it has very little to do with diet. |
I agree, and generally women tend to have less than men. But again, it's all generally speaking.
Now I feel bad that I had that kimchi nabe tonight, but luckily being sick and all with a presentation to give tomorrow, I'm only sharing breathing space with my wife tonight  . |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Apsara wrote: |
| norwalkesl wrote: |
This is a common misconception which I think is an excuse for racism when some people come out with it, but I'm afraid that what you eat won't make a lot of difference. Body odour (other than when hygiene is the cause) is a genetic thing rather than a diet-related thing. |
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I politely disagree. I have dated American Caucasian Vegans.
Complete and total lack of body odor. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
| Apsara wrote: |
| norwalkesl wrote: |
This is a common misconception which I think is an excuse for racism when some people come out with it, but I'm afraid that what you eat won't make a lot of difference. Body odour (other than when hygiene is the cause) is a genetic thing rather than a diet-related thing. |
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I politely disagree. I have dated American Caucasian Vegans.
Complete and total lack of body odor. |
Diet doesn't really affect body odour unless you are on something extreme like the Atkin's diet.
I eat far more red meat now than I ever did back home (I ate almost no meat in the UK). And I can safely report that the Japanese populus is not offended by how I smell... quite the opposite infact.
And no, I don't wear perfume or strong smelling deoderant. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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seklarwia posted
| Quote: |
I eat far more red meat now than I ever did back home (I ate almost no meat in the UK). And I can safely report that the Japanese populus is not offended by how I smell... quite the opposite infact.
And no, I don't wear perfume or strong smelling deoderant. |
They probably wouldn't directly tell you if they were (offended by your body odor).
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| Diet doesn't really affect body odour unless you are on something extreme like the Atkin's diet. |
I didn't know that the Atkin's diet affected your personal body odor. I have never heard this claim about it, even long before most main stream nutritionists came out againist it. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
| Apsara wrote: |
| norwalkesl wrote: |
This is a common misconception which I think is an excuse for racism when some people come out with it, but I'm afraid that what you eat won't make a lot of difference. Body odour (other than when hygiene is the cause) is a genetic thing rather than a diet-related thing. |
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I politely disagree. I have dated American Caucasian Vegans.
Complete and total lack of body odor. |
And my meat-eating husband (Japanese) and father (Caucasian) also have complete lack of body odour, neither has ever used deodorant- genetics at work in both cases I am thinking. I am a yoga instructor, so associate with a lot of vegans and vegetarians, and I can tell you that there are plenty of smelly vegetarians. Can you be entirely sure that every vegan in the world is completely odourless?
Garlicky food, smoking, drinking and heavy coffee consumption are quite prevalent in many Asian countries, Japan and China included, and I can tell you that your average Japanese salaryman on a Friday night commuter train in summer does not smell particularly lovely.
"Such and such a nationality of people are smelly" is something you will commonly hear from one nationality about another- Japanese people think Koreans smell, English people think the French are smelly, and vice versa for all I know. Asian people have plenty of misconceptions about westerners and vice versa, and the idea that westerners smell because they eat butter and meat is very definitely one of them. As another example, in Japan many people believe (wrongly) that Japanese people have longer intestines than any other nationality, which apparently means they can only digest Japanese rice, not "foreign rice"- I'm not kidding. This kind of thing abounds, and like the idea that eating butter makes people smell, has no base in reality. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
I didn't know that the Atkin's diet affected your personal body odor. I have never heard this claim about it, even long before most main stream nutritionists came out againist it. |
I loked it up!
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| I told a co-worker that I was on Atkins and she said that one of her friends was on Atkins a while back and that all of a sudden she started smelling like eggs all the time and had bad breath. She also mentioned that her hair was ashy and frizzy after starting Atkins. I am in Ketosis and I am so paranoid about smelling bad. I already have ketosis breath. Ugh! Has anybody experienced this? I am so paranoid and want to quit even though I am losing weight. It just doesn't seem worth it if I have BO and bad breath. I eat breath mints all the time and also those breath strips. I can still taste the ketosis taste in my mouth. I don't want to smell bad. Gross. Please help! |
http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/atkins-diet-14-day-induction/43054-ketosis-bad-breath-body-odor.html
Look at the advice!
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| So keep on following the plan and you will soon become a loser |
With Atkins the advice is: Believe! Be more credulous!!! Don't thnk about it!
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Smell like eggs all the time?!?!? People sadden me.
First off, if you're eating mints and breath strips, sorry you've just went off induction (aspartame - clean induction, those carbs add up if you're doing them all day long). But none the less, don't give any thoughts to that.
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
They probably wouldn't directly tell you if they were (offended by your body odor). |
People are very forward with me here: they ask me about my bra size (I had women I met for the first time feeling me in the toilets of a Tokyo club, Friday just gone... I guess exchanging email addresses is like giving an open invitation to "best friend" body contact); they ask me about the size of my bf's p****; they play with with my hair because it "feels strange"... so why would they not comment on something like that?
The opposite that I spoke of is that they are always telling me how good I smell and love to smell me. Maybe I give of pheromones that only attract Japanese people . It seems to attract everyone; young and old, male and female.
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I didn't know that the Atkin's diet affected your personal body odor. I have never heard this claim about it, even long before most main stream nutritionists came out againist it. |
Actually they did do a couple of documentaries about the negative side of it a few years when it became really popular in the UK. It seemed only natural to some nutritionists that a diet that unbalanced was bound to have bad effects. Amongst the side affects complained about by the guniea pigs or picked up through tests in the short term tests were: really stinky poo, bad breath, decrease in bone density, loss of muscle mass, greasy skin (which in turn lead to spot break outs), lack of energy/increased tiredness, increased sweating (which could lead to bad smells if you weren't on the ball and always carrying wet wipes), etc.
They were not ready to risk a long term study back then to see if the human body could eventually adapt because doctors suggested that if it didn't, it might possibly lead to permenant body damage for the test subjects. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I had women I met for the first time feeling me in the toilets of a Tokyo club, Friday just gone |
Iina! Soem people get all the luck! |
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