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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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If it weren't for all the overpriced under-performing language schools in Mexico, I wouldn't have any private students. They come looking for me after finishing all the levels in the place they studied and realizing they still can't carry on a decent conversation in English  ! |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| That's another thing that bemuses me, what do most language schools offer that's different from what students have at school? As far as I can see only smaller classes... and what difference does a native speaker make if their just following a book anyway? At best most can provide stilted conversation and light entertainment while regurgitating something they've just read in an azar book. |
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notamiss
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| .. and what difference does a native speaker make if they�re just following a book anyway? |
What difference does a native speaking teacher make? To cite some examples of mis-teaching I've seen or heard of directly from victims of non-native-English teachers with shaky English (or in some of the following cases from the teachers themselves):
-a native speaker knows that �apple� isn�t pronounced �aple�
-a native speaker knows how to conjugate �to be� correctly in the present indicative (yes!)
-a native speaker knows that �town� and �country� mean �ciudad� and �pueblo� respectively, not vice versa (Grade 5 lesson from the book, teacher had got it wrong, presumably from equating �town� with �pueblo�)
-a native speaker knows that �por� and �para� usually mean �by� and �for� respectively, not vice versa (teacher in a language school telling me about a lesson he�d taught on �by� and �for�. When he mentioned some examples he was using, I realized he�d got it backwards.)
-a native speaker knows that �large� doesn�t mean �long� (largo)
-a native speaker isn�t constantly flummoxed by that pesky �s� in the present indicative 3rd person (�He study English, no, he studies English, is that right?�)
-a native speaker isn�t tied into knots by the auxiliary verb + participle construction in questions (�Did he caught the ball?� �How you say _____ in English?�)
to name a few examples.
Last edited by notamiss on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| -a native speaker knows that �town� and �country� mean �ciudad� and �pueblo� respectively, not vice versa (Grade 5 lesson from the book, teacher had got it wrong, presumably from equating �town� with �pueblo�) |
Are you sure about that?
I'd translate "pueblo" as "town", too. Ciudad is city.
A confusion could be from the fact that many "towns" (San Miguel de Allende comes to mind) are called cities in Mexico. I suppose it depends on the countries definition of a city. |
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notamiss
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Re: town and country, yes I'm sure. Poor choice of vocabulary, perhaps, in the English lesson book to use �town� for city life, but it was clear from the examples that they were contrasting city life (town) with rural life (country). The problem was that the teacher thought �town� referred to rural life and so by default, �country� must be city life. |
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Dragonlady
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| That's another thing that bemuses me, what do most language schools offer that's different from what students have at school? As far as I can see only smaller classes... |
This is an interesting observation from your point of view. I'm assuming you've taught at both? I have, and whole heartedly disagree. The most obvious difference IMO is that language schools teach 'by level' not 'by grade'. I consider myself well prepared for and experienced with mixed level classes, yet I'm continually frustrated with students' lack of progress (Primary Grades 1-6).
| wrote: |
| ...and what difference does a native speaker make if their just following a book anyway? At best most can provide stilted conversation and light entertainment while regurgitating something they've just read in an azar book. |
Notamis is bang on with this.
In addition to her comments, I'll add that students would never have the opportunity of hearing bemuses me used during a class with a Mexican national teacher (nor a Canadian ) , but they would likely hear 'popcorns' and 'homeworks'. I'm actually proud that my (Colegio) FCE prep class never has a substitute when I can't be there - the Mexican English teachers and co-ordinator are absolutely intimidated by my students' English language skills.
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| ...what difference does a native speaker make if their just following a book anyway |
... hmmmm... I guess we all make mistakes now and then.
DL |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Dragonlady wrote: |
| wrote: |
| That's another thing that bemuses me, what do most language schools offer that's different from what students have at school? As far as I can see only smaller classes... |
This is an interesting observation from your point of view. I'm assuming you've taught at both? I have, and whole heartedly disagree. The most obvious difference IMO is that language schools teach 'by level' not 'by grade'. I consider myself well prepared for and experienced with mixed level classes, yet I'm continually frustrated with students' lack of progress (Primary Grades 1-6). |
The prepas and unis I've worked at were/are all by level too hence my observation about language schools (done my time there too) using the exact same method, even down to the same book and as it's SLP, you may even get the same teacher... why these students would go to a language school for 'more of the same' is beyond me.
| wrote: |
| ...and what difference does a native speaker make if their just following a book anyway? At best most can provide stilted conversation and light entertainment while regurgitating something they've just read in an azar book. |
Notamis is bang on with this.
In addition to her comments, I'll add that students would never have the opportunity of hearing bemuses me used during a class with a Mexican national teacher (nor a Canadian ) , but they would likely hear 'popcorns' and 'homeworks'. I'm actually proud that my (Colegio) FCE prep class never has a substitute when I can't be there - the Mexican English teachers and co-ordinator are absolutely intimidated by my students' English language skills.[/quote]
All perfectly true but students are usually only interested in something if it's going to be in the exam and therefore inevitably taken from the coursebook. Nice pronunciation is not high on their list of priorities making it less relevant who turns the pages.
| wrote: |
| ...what difference does a native speaker make if their just following a book anyway |
... hmmmm... I guess we all make mistakes now and then. [/quote]
We do indeed. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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On a fun side note.
My daughters go to a private primary school that has English (1 hour a week not bilingual). After getting their last quarter grades my husband --who's on the cheeky and confrontational side of life--asked the director what the point of their English program was if our daughters who's overall grades will all 10s with a couple of 9s got a 7 and 8 in English--but yet, they can (and do) communicate in English regularly. Their English is not as good as their Spanish, as they don't use it as much, but it's there.
The next week they came home and told us the school got a new English teacher!  |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
On a fun side note.
My daughters go to a private primary school that has English (1 hour a week not bilingual). After getting their last quarter grades my husband --who's on the cheeky and confrontational side of life--asked the director what the point of their English program was if our daughters who's overall grades will all 10s with a couple of 9s got a 7 and 8 in English--but yet, they can (and do) communicate in English regularly. Their English is not as good as their Spanish, as they don't use it as much, but it's there.
The next week they came home and told us the school got a new English teacher! |
Good for your husband! I hope the new English teacher is competent enough to realize how well your daughters speak English and gives them the 10s they deserve. |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Off-topic postings have been deleted. Please stay on topic and thus avoid derailing the thread and having it locked or otherwise made unavailable. |
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spanglish
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 742
Location: working on that
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| MotherF wrote: |
On a fun side note.
My daughters go to a private primary school that has English (1 hour a week not bilingual). After getting their last quarter grades my husband --who's on the cheeky and confrontational side of life--asked the director what the point of their English program was if our daughters who's overall grades will all 10s with a couple of 9s got a 7 and 8 in English--but yet, they can (and do) communicate in English regularly. Their English is not as good as their Spanish, as they don't use it as much, but it's there.
The next week they came home and told us the school got a new English teacher! |
Good for your husband! I hope the new English teacher is competent enough to realize how well your daughters speak English and gives them the 10s they deserve. |
Hmmm, having taught at a high school where the teacher was always wrong and the students were always right, I think it's kind of sad the teacher got sacked at your school. Perhaps s/he deserved it, but still - speaking the language well isn't the only criteria for handing out grades. There's other stuff like: attitude, doing homework and participation. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Spanglish--I did not want her fired--I had approached her at the beginning of the year to offer her help and materials, but she never followed up on it. (And I don't know that she was fired, I just know they got a new teacher after we suggested the program was deficient.)
This is NOT a high school, this is second grade!
I would perfer the school drop English, if they are only going to give it one hour a week. I'd rather my kids have an additional hour of P.E. I have also told them I'm willing to help design a program if they want to have English daily, and have the kids stay an hour longer (they are only in school 8 to 1 here) and have the parents pay 100 pesos more a month. Make it worth while. Now, it's not at all worth while. |
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