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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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 Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way, have you looked into your visa situation? You're aware that your visa allows you to work for a different school, aren't you? And you know that having a visa opens up a lot of job opportunities. |
Good question. When I left Japan, I was told by an AEON representative that if I didn't cancel the visa, I would be liable for taxes once I returned. Does anyone know if that is correct?
I also cancelled my visa because I figured that if I returned to East Asia to teach English, it would probably be to South Korea or Taiwan, where the cost of living would allow me to save more money. In addition, I figured that if I applied for any kind of eikaiwa or ALT position, I would have to explain that I had got my visa through AEON and then explain what happened. Obviously, that would make getting any kind of English teaching job in Japan more difficult.
Last edited by rslrunner on Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kah5217
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 270
Location: Ibaraki
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| They tricked you. That visa was yours to keep, and you could have easily stayed in Tokyo and found another job while living in a Sakura house. |
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thomthom
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| kah5217 wrote: |
| They tricked you. That visa was yours to keep, and you could have easily stayed in Tokyo and found another job while living in a Sakura house. |
Agreed. But he still would have needed to explain to any prospective employer how he got the visa, and they would likely call AEON for their side of the story.
Personally I would've at least stayed 1-2 weeks in Tokyo, treating it like a holiday, washing away the blues, frivolously spending a fraction of what the set-up costs would have been had everything gone to plan. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| kah5217 wrote: |
| They tricked you. |
Why would they do that?
| rslrunner wrote: |
| When I left Japan, I was told by an AEON representative that if I didn't cancel the visa, I would be liable for taxes once I returned. Does anyone know if that is correct? |
I don't know. The law for resident foreign nationals changed last year, so everything I know is out of date. But it's an important question. If you were told the truth, it's something this forum should be aware of. (Conventional wisdom is, "Once you've got the visa, it's yours." without any mention of the tax implications). If you weren't, this forum would be very interested to know about the problems at AEON.
Would you mind answering these questions:
1. Was your training paid or unpaid?
2. What stage had you reached in the visa process? (If it was you who had to cancel the application, that suggests you'd got pretty far.)
By the way, try unchecking the "Disable BBCode in this post" option when you quote somebody in your answer. |
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Inflames
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:28 am Post subject: Re: The AEON blues: terminated during training |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
I also made other mistakes like putting my hands in my pocket when standing up and putting my water bottle on the table. |
I think it's totally unreasonable if these are considered mistakes by AEON.
As others have said, you can be fired within the first two weeks without notice (or payment in lieu). IIRC since you relocated for the job they are actually obligated to pay for your flight back (which they did).
FWIW this sort of situation does happen to a fair number of people. I know it happens at ECC and happened at Nova (although Nova's training was so short people slipped through then got fired afterwards). |
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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:38 am Post subject: Re: The AEON blues: terminated during training |
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| Inflames wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
I also made other mistakes like putting my hands in my pocket when standing up and putting my water bottle on the table. |
I think it's totally unreasonable if these are considered mistakes by AEON.
As others have said, you can be fired within the first two weeks without notice (or payment in lieu). IIRC since you relocated for the job they are actually obligated to pay for your flight back (which they did).
FWIW this sort of situation does happen to a fair number of people. I know it happens at ECC and happened at Nova (although Nova's training was so short people slipped through then got fired afterwards). |
Really? That's a shocking indictment of the lack of common sense at those companies, in any situation you have to give someone a reasonable chance to prove themselves or not, quite apart from what it says about their hiring methods in the first pace if someone who has got through a rigorous interview process is thrown out after a couple of days of actual work. Those places are a joke. It really shows how pathetic and stupid a lot of big companies are. At least everyone knew Nova was a joke but somehow most of the others still operate under a certain false conception of quality and competence. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:57 am Post subject: Re: The AEON blues: terminated during training |
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| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| Those places are a joke. It really shows how pathetic and stupid a lot of big companies are. At least everyone knew Nova was a joke but somehow most of the others still operate under a certain false conception of quality and competence. |
From what I saw, Nova was quite slow to fire people. It took a lot to get the boot there. I can remember being surprised that certain people were NOT fired. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The law for resident foreign nationals changed last year, so everything I know is out of date. But it's an important question. If you were told the truth, it's something this forum should be aware of. (Conventional wisdom is, "Once you've got the visa, it's yours." without any mention of the tax implications). If you weren't, this forum would be very interested to know about the problems at AEON.
Would you mind answering these questions:
1. Was your training paid or unpaid?
2. What stage had you reached in the visa process? (If it was you who had to cancel the application, that suggests you'd got pretty far.) |
By the way, I unchecked the "Disable BBCode in this option", and fixed that issue in my older posts in this thread. Thanks for that information.
1. My training was paid. I received payment for work that I did that week in training on Thursday afternoon.
2. I had secured my visa in the United States before I left, and received my residence card in Japan. When I left Japan, I told them I was not coming back, and they punched a hole in the residence card.
Did that hole in my card invalidate my visa? Truth be told, I was so focused on other things that I don't even know the exact answer to that question. I believe my visa has been cancelled, but of course the visa still appears in my passport.
The one thing I had in common with AEON is that we both felt I should go home. I hadn't even thought of looking for a job while staying at the Sakura House in Tokyo, or doing anything else in Japan for that matter, as fun as that may be in other circumstances. Which is a shame. But my primary concern was taking care of myself, and that meant coming back to the U.S. at that moment.
I don't even know if my visa is still valid this moment, which tells myself a lot.
The salient question for me is this: would I face tax liability if I had kept that residence card and then come back to Japan? Definitely, it is important for all residents to know this. Moreover, this is what I was told specifically by an AEON representative. If untrue, the implications are enormous. I just don't know the answer to that question. |
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kah5217
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 270
Location: Ibaraki
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| Why would they do that? |
I'd imagine to keep someone from running over to ECC or wherever.
Although, if a competitor picked up a truly substandard employee, that would theoretically work in Aeon's favor. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| kah5217 wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
| Why would they do that? |
I'd imagine to keep someone from running over to ECC or wherever.
Although, if a competitor picked up a truly substandard employee, that would theoretically work in Aeon's favor. |
I doubt that AEON cares that much about what happens to their "rejects". |
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Inflames
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: Re: The AEON blues: terminated during training |
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| steki47 wrote: |
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| Those places are a joke. It really shows how pathetic and stupid a lot of big companies are. At least everyone knew Nova was a joke but somehow most of the others still operate under a certain false conception of quality and competence. |
From what I saw, Nova was quite slow to fire people. It took a lot to get the boot there. I can remember being surprised that certain people were NOT fired. |
I can think of a few people who were given letters saying their employment was terminated immediately and those letters also detailed how much money they would get (at least one month's salary) |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:36 am Post subject: Re: The AEON blues: terminated during training |
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| steki47 wrote: |
| From what I saw, Nova was quite slow to fire people. It took a lot to get the boot there. I can remember being surprised that certain people were NOT fired. |
Right. What management would do is transfer those teachers they preceived as a problem. You really had to push to get fired from NOVA.
I saw teachers and trainers and assistant trainers, who had alcohol problems, were late, slept with students, lived with students, dated students, slept with staff, dated staff, etc.
A lot of them were transferred but never fired. Although I did know a couple who were fired. One for continued alcohol related problems resulting in absences and lateness over the course of several years and after several transfers and another who had received complaints from the parents of a young woman whom he was seeing.
But you really had to push to get fired from NOVA once you got through the first contract and probationary period.
Back to the OP and his situation: Yes, I think AEON were being disengenuous with you regarding the work visa issue. You could have stayed in Japan and simply found another job - even put together several part-time jobs, depending on where you were located. This would have easily been possible in the big cities like Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya and Fukuoka.
You were duped. You did not have to cancel your work visa and leave the country. But AEON doesn't want to still be the sponsor of your work visa after showing you the door. I'm sure it's no skin off their ass nor would it have inconvenienced them either way, but that underscores the kind of people you're dealing with in management at these chain companies. They are often very nasty and underhanded. It takes a certain individual and personality to want to to that kind of work.
Second, don't take it so hard. I've seen this happen to people and they are in shock that they didn't make it through their probationary period or their week long of unpaid training - e.g., NOVA, Berlitz, ECC, etc. Had you stayed, you would have found something eventually and those who didn't do well at one school have often seen things work out for them at another.
But a lot of it is not because of your poor teaching skills but simply because someone there identified you as not being a good fit for their corporate culture. That's basically what it comes down to. None of the new hires ever had teaching experience back when I went through NOVA. We all had to learn on the job. A lot of people made the same mistakes that you mentioned and some much worse. Yet they were never fired or let go.
That said, I would encourage you to look into TEFL opportunities in Korea and Taiwan. Those are also good places to live, work and save a little money while doing it. But don't sweat this AEON experience, it has happened to a lot of good people. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to Solar Strength for the encouragement.
Again, I really had no interest in staying in Japan once I was gone for multiple reasons. I know Japan has a lot to offer, but I couldn't see any of that at the time.
Yeah, Taiwan and South Korea are possibilities, and certainly are better options financially going forward.
I'm still unsure if my residence card cancellation invalidated my entire visa, but I think it did.
The $64,000 issue is still this: a company representative told me that if I didn't cancel my visa, I would have a tax liability if I came back to Japan, even if I wasn't living in the country. Is this true? |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. It seems that you'd be assessed for local inhabitant tax known as "juminzei" but not income tax. Good question, though, because I believe that juminzei is a function of earnings, also.
Inquire with immigration or you Japanese consulate regarding your status. |
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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Actually I'm not sure the tax question is a $64,000 question. I would have thought you should be liable for city taxes if you came back because theoretically you had been living here. You shouldn't be liable for income tax because you hadn't been working, but the city taxes are not that much, averaged per week, and you don't pay anything in the first year anyway. I think what the guy said was obviously true if you think about it but the way he said it was probably intended as a scaremongering tactic and because he was a dick.
The other thing though is if you had come back you could very well have been living a different area and the initial place you'd been living in would never have traced you, but perhaps you need the city tax forms for all the current visa residence to get a new visa nowadays, but that is a bit of a different matter, depending if you wanted another visa. |
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