Job Discussion Forums

[PierogiMonster]

TBI vs Wall Street: less the latest in a superhero film franchise, and more of a question.

I've read the appropriate threads, but thought it might be a good idea (for job-hunters like me, in particular) to summarise the relative merits of each in one easy to manage, cut-out-and-keep thread - if you'd be so kind.

Any thoughts?

[bule_boy69]

TBI (dunno about the franchises)

Pays better + much better holidays

Better career development/CV builder in my opinion, not impressed by the 'Wall St method.' Get experience with range of classes / age groups.

Wall Street

Long hours but not much prep required.

No kids


Central TBI branches used to have a good rep, but then it was a revolving door. A recent long awaited change of staff might help in that respect. I'll say no more.

Hope you have an English degree if you are planning on working for Wall Street and it would certainly help at TBI these days.

[PierogiMonster]

Thanks bule_boy69

Yeah, I've got BA English + PGCE (no kids' teaching licence) and lots of adult EFL experience. Not so keen on the kiddies. Hmm..pros and cons ...

BTW, you sure about TBI paying a lot more? Wall Street are offering around 16mill/month gross and TBI offer 14mill/month nett (according to an example contract they sent me).

Anyone else? Thanks.

[bule_boy69]

[PierogiMonster]

A PGCE comes in two flavours. The more common is for those who wish to teach kids at state schools. When they graduate (just like those who study a BEd) and start working at a school, they are awarded QTS (Qualified Teacher Status). It's this QTS that international schools etc will look for.

I did the second variety of PGCE, more fully known as 'PGCE Continuing Education'. It's a great postgrad level course, which prepares the student very well for teaching in the post-16 sector (FE colleges, the adult education sector etc). However, it doesn't prepare you to teach kids and does not confer QTS.

Interesting that TBI teachers don't have too many hours with the kids. I'm not pathologically averse to them, I just see my skills more at the adult end.

One thing puzzles me: just what is the difference in holiday allocation between WS and TBI and why?

[bule_boy69]

[Tudor]

Are you sure the Wall Street salary is gross? The last job ad I saw for them just stated the salary at 15-17 million per month - I assumed this is net as this is how teaching salaries are usually quoted in Indonesia.

Yes, Wall Street's holidays are crap - just 16 days compared to 30 at TBI. Of course, you'll get numerous public holidays at both places as well.

There are pros and cons with both schools. You'll certainly get more variety of teaching at TBI whereas the Wall Street method seems quite formulaic to me. In terms of career progression (i.e. promotion) I'd say you'd have more opprounities at Wall Street to be honest. TBI seem only to be promoting local teachers nowadays and don't forget that you could probably transfer countries with Wall Street in the future if you so wished. However, in terms of work/life balance, I think TBI probably edge it as there are fewer contact hours and no Sunday working. You could find yourself working all weekend at Wall Street - not my idea of fun.

Overall, in terms of the actual job (salary aside) I'd say that TBI would win on points. But, as bule_boy69 alluded to by his 'revolving door' comment, TBI don't have the reputation they once did and over the last year they've lost two CELTA trainers (with 15+ years service between them) and native teachers rarely stay for more than a year; this speaks volumes when you consider that they offer a decent package. On the contrary, Wall Street employees - past and present - generally seem to speak highly of them as an employer. So there you go, I'd advise to try and meet with them both and go with your gut feeling!

Other 'adult only' language schools in Jakarta include IALF, Direct English and Aim for English - google them, they all have websites.

[bule_boy69]

Surprised that Wall St has increased to a minimum of 15. I thought not so long ago their starting salary was a less than TBI but negotiable for experienced teachers. Not the case for TBI, I think everyone starts on the same regardless.

With this in mind I can see how Wall St might hold more appeal for experienced people like the OP. Especially so when they are coming from overseas as TBI don't assist with flights.

Looking at the ad...airport pick up, pocket money (in addition or deducted from first pay?) and hotel on arrival must also look appealing to folks out of country.

Looks like it wins on the bonus front too, a month's salary and and extra $800 for re-signing. What's TBI, US$1000?

Of course there is the argument that a 13th month is payable by law (am I right?) so it shouldn't be marketed as a contract completion bonus, but none the less, at least they pay it.

Still don't fancy those hours though - even that much needed free flow coffee wouldn't tempt me. I notice they no longer assure that it is "the good stuff." cutbacks?

All the stuff they write about how much there is to see and do in Indo (true enough) makes me laugh considering the 16 days off. Even EF offer 20 don't they?

[Tudor]

Yeah, a couple of years ago Wall Street's entry-level salary was 12 million although experienced teachers may well have been able to negotiate a bit more. So, yes, with a couple of years' experience behind them, someone should be able to walk into Wall St on 17 million now. That's not to be sniffed at when you consider EF pay their newbies around 8 million.

It's perhaps surprising then that Wall St haven't increased their holiday entitlement commensurately. Even four extra days would make a big difference meaning teachers could take four weeks off throughout the year. Having said that, I don't think American companies in general are particularly generous with leave so maybe 16 days is considered reasonable by American standards. AFAIK, EF give 22 days annual leave.

TBI have altered their bonus; I think teachers get $500 after six months and then $1000 upon completion of contract. It's generally accepted - as in it's not worth rocking the boat over - that an end-of-year contract is in lieu of the 13th month salary but, with that in mind, the bonus ought to match a full month's salary and not be paid in US dollars. Anyway...

So, there you have it OP. I think you need to decide what factors are important for you (salary, holidays, work/life balance, career progression, types of teaching etc) and take it from there as the two schools are pretty much evenly matched.

Ya never know bb69, that "free-flow coffee" might just swing it in Wall Street's favour after all

[bule_boy69]

Well I never...it does seem that Wall St has overtaken TBI in terms of pay. One more consideration is location.

It's not cheap to rent around TBI Kuningan. I guess if working in Sudirman (do they have native speakers in Sudirman these days?) you could commute from somewhere cheaper, but better to live near the job in such a trafficky city.

If you were at Wall Street Kelapa Gading or er the other one.... (Taman Anggrek is it?) you could rent an apartment affordably nearby.

Then again, if money is the main issue for someone like the OP (not in the country and with years of experience) I would suggest another city/country.

[PierogiMonster]

Thankyou so much for your invaluable info.

If only one of the schools had all the aces! Decision time indeed ...

A degree of autonomy in planning lessons is very important to me (even if it's following a coursebook through the year, I still like to be free to mix and match). Can anyone shed any light on typical courses and lesson content at the schools, besides that mentioned on their websites? Thanks again.

[Tudor]

I couldn't say for certain, but I imagine that Wall Street is very prescriptive. As far as I can make out, students study on their own and when they feel they are ready to progress onto the next module or level they join a session with a native speaker and two or three other students and are assessed. It doesn't sound the most thrilling of jobs although there's probably more to it than that.

I believe that all TBI courses have a course book - I know for certain that they use Cutting Edge for their General English classes - but I'm also led to believe that their courses require a fair bit of supplementing which is where the autonomy and flexibility come in. In all honesty, as long as the students are happy with your lessons I think you're pretty much left to your own devices.

Also, bear in mind that all Wall Street's "classrooms" (more like cubicles tbh) are glass-fronted so you're under constant scrutiny - I wouldn't like that. Some of their classrooms (in their Kelapa Gading branch for example) can even be seen from the outside meaning passers-by can stop and watch you teaching!

If you're just going to be there for a year (you've got a PGCE - you can do a lot better than a language school) then I'd probably choose TBI. If they like you (they'll snap your hand off, believe me) tell them Wall Street have offered you 17 million and see if they counter-offer it. You have to realise that these schools are crying out for English degree holders and it's you, not them, who hold the cards. Good luck!

[Durian Tango]

I don't know abut TBI, but from what I know of Wall Street, some classes have to be taught by the book and according to the lesson plan without much flexiblity. Other classes though, like the Social Clubs they mention in the ad, are 100% teacher created. So it seems you'd have have some flexibility some of the time, but not all of the time.

In terms of companies. TBI has been around longer than WSI and they are CELTA providers which is a big bonus. I believe that teachers that go and get their CELTA there get preferential hiring at TBIs, though I may be wrong. As noted by others, WSI is newer but is growing quite quickly so most likely it's a better place for those that want to move into upper level positions like a head teacher or Director of Studies.

Wall Street is only in Jakarta while TBI is in Jakarta and Bandung.

It would be nice to hear first hand from some TBI and WSI teachers...

[Tudor]

[PierogiMonster]

Cheers again for all the input. I'm gonna lay low for a while as I've got an interview coming up and I'd rather keep a low profile.

If I get to Indonesia, I'll let you know how it goes.

See ya.