Job Discussion Forums

[pattyflipper no more]

Hello everyone. This is my first post, so here goes.
I am looking to go teach in China. I don't have a degree as I am olny 19 years old, but I am TESOL certified.

I am wondering where to go in China to teach. I have been looking at jobs and places around southern china by the coast. My goal is to try to find a city that is no larger then 1.5 million. I really don't want to be in a place any larger then that. If anyone is living there, or has been there if they could let me know about costs, traffic, pollution, and general lifestyle.

Another question I have is regarding my age and not having a degree. Will me only being 19 be a large deterent for schools to want to hire me??? I realize there is also quite a bit of negativity on this site regarding those teachers who do not have a degree, and I commend all those that do, but will not having a degree stop me from getting a decent job. Any help that can be provided would be great.
Thanks in advance.

[Seth]

Well, without a 4 year degree you can't get a work permit, so you couldn't work legally. If you want to risk it, it's your choice. I believe that Canadians can get a working holiday visa for Japan without a degree, you could try that!

[arioch36]

Seth is on the money
Unfortunately (or fortunately) with no degree, you would only be able to get a job at the worst schools. As a young woman (unfortunately true in almost any country...youth plus female), those type of people who take advantage of others will try to hook right into you.
Very curious why you would choose this, why you would go ahead and pay for a TEFL course? The same info is true in about every country in the world. What is your goal? Have you considered other ways, such as being a volunteer in an organization?
Not trying to discourage you, but I would be honest to encourage you.

[Roger]

Well, we all have our questions about those that make their queries and enquiries here, I don't suppose they want to tell us why they want to come here in the first place!

As regards your question about a place of no more than 1.5 million inhabitants in the SOuth of China:
- Foshan might fit you (but it is on the outskirts of Guangzhou);
- Zhaoqing (more like half a million, perhaps even less, a city with a certain charm);
- Haikou, Hainan island: Not very big, but it has been built over the last ten years! Don't know if that makes a favourable impression - the construction boom eventually gave way to bust. But Hainan is idyllic! Good seashores, beaches.
- DOngguan, Guangdong: Not very recommendable, but not very big.
- Huizhou: Not bad, smallish, closer to Shenzhen, but inland, away from the sea!
- Xiamen, Fujian: A good place in most respects!
- Zhuhai: Modern, clean, airy, next to Macau: IDeal in many respects!
- Zhongshan: Fifty kms north of Zhuhai, nice modern downtown, but rest of place is not interesting.
- Shantou: New, affluent, smallish - and boring. East coast of Guangdong.
- Shaoguan, Guangdong: A bit isolated, small, famous for Buddhist monasteries in the mountains around town, halfway between Guangzhou and Changsha.

Make your pick!
Roger

[pattyflipper no more]

Thanks for the honest advice and tips. The list of cities was good, thank you Roger. I was asked why I did the TESOL before a degree and my answer to that was as follows. Basically, it is a form of training. I am to young to have a degree, I actually started to do one, but then realized that I was not sure what I wanted to do in life. As my goals for the future had been to travel, and I was planning to become a teacher, this seemed like a great opertunity for me. The TESOL course gave me lots of good info on how to try to be a better teacher as well as some of the aspects of dealing with other cultures. I realize that it does not substatute a degree, but I feel I can still be a bennifit to the kids that I will be teaching.

Since from the posts, it was determined that I am going to get the bottom of the barrel jobs (I kind of saw that comming), are there any recommendations on how I can get a job that I will like in my present situation. What are some tips to be able to work in the country legally, and avoid all the cowboy schools. Any answers would be helpful,
again, thanks in advance.

[Roger]

I liked your reply, lady!

Now, I would like to remind you that you are a wee bit young, but NOT TOO YOUNG, to work in China!
I am making this point so that you know your age will hardly separate you from your charges - except from adults who may be two times as old as yourself!
What kinds of subjects do you want to teach?

I think you will hardly have the mettle and stamina it takes to work with middle-school students - they are just a couple or 3 years your juniors, and you might have some respect issues to deal with!
Are you a good entertainer? Then, I would be less pessimistic!

Otherwise, my advice would be to try a kindergarten. Oh, don't say this is uninspiring! For me, more than twice your age, this is the most interesting type of work with Chinese English learners!
You can learn a lot about yourself through working with others!

It will perhaps teach you to restrain your youthful energy!
And, it will teach you to be realistic!

All of this you can not learn at supposedly higher levels of the Chinese education system! You simply will have to fit in, adapt or die!

And, kindergarten work is well-remunerated!

Now for your other question: Cowboy schools, and how to avoid them!

You should NOT entertain any offer from recruiters!

And, if they have fanciful names ("Four Seas and FIve Mountains International English College"), give it a miss unless they can take you legally on board!

To tell you the truth, some of my own experiences were horripilifying!

My first private employer?
I didn't know I was applying to one of them - I was standing outside a primary school, and this CHinese guy was talking to my future slave driver!

I negotiated a deal - 12 hours a week for then 2500 RMB (then quite good!).
When I turned up to take up my job, the 12 hours a week had mysteriously become 12 hours A DAY.

I had to put some common sense into my slave driver's mind - not easy, but I succeeded!

[Bertrand]

They will tell you that you don't need a degree for a working visa in China. They are lying. Remember, it will be YOU that goes down, not them.

[chi-chi]

I really feel like you should go back to school. I am not judging you or anything, but feel like someone in your situation is a prime target for employers to try and take advantage of you. If you are caught working illegally in any of the Asian countries (ESPECIALLY communist China!) then you could get deported, pay heavy fines, etc. The risks are just too high.
If you are thinking about teaching and like to travel, have you ever considered either Sociology or Anthropology as a major? Or maybe teaching. Or maybe both.
Like I said I am not judging you at all, but I really hope that you decide to go back to school. I personally have seen too many people drop out of college or high school, and the longer they stay out the less likely they are to have the time, money, or initiative to go back. In addition, it is harder (at least in the US) to obtain financial aid for school if you are above a certain age.
Please think about what I said and I do wish you the best of luck.

[taiwan boy]

I would highly recommend Xiamen. It is a very clean city. It is supposed to have the best environment of any Chinese city.

Another city Roger didn't mention on his list is Zhangzhou. It is near Xiamen. I have only passed through it though so I don't really know what it's like to live there.

[pattyflipper no more]

Well the first thing I think I should clear up, is that I am not a lady. I am a man. I think the name throws people off, but it refers to my 3 years working in the fast food industry at wendy's. Again some more great advice from all of you and I appreciate it. I am planning to go back to school. I am using this experience to help me decide what I am going to do for the rest of my life. I started the college and became discontent with it as I had no real purpose that I wanted to achieve, so I desided to give one to myself. That has become teaching.

Not that I have not been paying attention to what everyone has said, but is there anyway I can actaully work legally in China??? I don't want to work illegally as that only seems to cause problems.

If I can work in China, has anyone seen any postings or heard about any jobs in Zhuhai. I have been researching it and this seems like a nice city, but I have seen only a few postings. Can anyone give me more info on this.

My last question will be, if I can't work in China legally, where can I work???

I would appreciate some help with these questions, thanks again in advance,
Pattyflipper.

[Peter]

Working is China in terms of being illegal is a grey area. Many teachers
get by on a 6 months business visa. This is normal practice here in Shenzhen and certainly in Zhuhai as it is only one hour away from Hong Kong, where these visas are sold on a routine basis for 500 to 700 HK dollars.

Zhuhai has another advantage, Macau is right there, next to Zhuhai. And it is a smaller place, as compared to the monster cities of Snenzhen and Guanzhou. There are even hot pools an hour North!

[davis]

Peter's right about the grey area. We have four foreign teachers at our school. Some with degrees and some without. None of us have a resident permit so we're working illegally but in the 7 months we've been here no one has been bothered once. Still...I'd feel better if I were completely legal. The school has been excellent in every other respect so we're loathe to leave due to that one shortcoming. As for southern coastal cities...Beihai in Guangxi Province is an option. Probably not as convenient for getting to/from as other places but it does have a rather sleepy laid back feeling and not overly expensive. Fairly clean air too. There was an ad for teachers there too recently. You can check it out on eslGold.com if you go to the job links. And yes....the ad wanted degreed teachers but if they want someone bad enough.....I don't know how it would be to live and work there but the visit was ok.

[Roger]

To pattyflipper no more,

Zhuhai is a nice place, but you must not focus on it alone as there might be too many jobseekrs there...
30 kms north, and you are in ZHONGSHAN. Not a bad place either! At least the downtown area is pretty, clean and has good shopping and entertainment joints.

Or Shunde, another 30 kms north... Smallish and stylish, albeit with Chinese characteristics (a street done entirely in mock-Portuguese/Spanish architecture!).
Or Zhaoqing, with its karst hills, a 100 kms west of Guangzhou.

Foshan, old, small and compact, but surrounded by other towns.

I don't think you will have to many problems with a public school hiring you. They are more likely to take you on board legally.

In your case, I would avoid language institutes. It is too unnerving work - changes, changes, changes every week. Schedules, composition of your student bodies, locations.
Besides you get a lot of corporate clients - not everybody's cup of tea! They are spoilt adults that get freebies for which they don't need to work, and that lowers their diligence, while it also raises their expectations on you!

[senor boogie woogie]

Hola!

I worked at a Shane's English School in Hangzhou and they hired a Canadian without a college degree. It all depends how you look.

You could also possibly go into the "boonies" and find something. I would try to get a TESL, TEFL, or CELTA to make yourself look better.

SENOR

[Tubbo]

Hi,

Well, I've been in China for 6 months now. At my previous school, two of the teachers were working without a degree. The director managed to get them a green and red card, which are required to be legal, by paying some money to a government official.

I'm currently on Hainan Island. It's very hot and humid today, but the air is very good for China. I've noticed that most of the foreign teachers here tend to be in their early twenties, so that's no problem.

I'd say send in an application. Find the China Tefl Network and look up Hainan Island. It gives you a list of schools. Try and get a positon in Haikou, the capital, as socialising with other foreigners on Saturday night at the Western bars is a fun night out.