Job Discussion Forums

BMO · Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 9

Hey guys, this is my first post but I've been around these forums for a while just browsing and doing research and stuff, so thanks to everyone that has posted helpful information or tried to help inform others.

I'm looking to work in China but from what I understand one of the visa requirements is to be 25 years old. My wife and I (21 & 22, respectively) are having no trouble finding interested employers but everyone that we've found so far is not sponsoring the initial 3-month Z visa. Is this normal? Or is this because of our ages? We had hopes to work in China but I'm worried that the age limit on the visa will make it impossible to get there (although several have mentioned that the visa requirements are not strictly enforced rules and just "guidelines").

Our qualifications are:

Wife:
BA in English, TEFL/TESOL/TESL Certified, 1-2 years experience

Me:
BA in Finance, TEFL/TESOL/TESL Certified, 1 year experience

What are the odds that we will find decent employment? A lot of the interviews so far have been for around 8000 RMB+ accomodations, no flight paid, and of course no visa sponsorship until we get there.

Thanks for your time!

SledgeCleaver · Joined: 02 Mar 2013 Posts: 126

Have you checked universities and public schools? As far as I can tell, most of the visa-skullduggery is done by private institutes.

This is ESL and you can be taken advantage of very easily, I wouldn't recommend going there without a Z-visa. If they can't give you a Z-visa, they're likely inexperienced, fly-by-night, dishonest, downright criminal, incompetent, or have no ability to navigate the bureaucracy, if not a combination of these factors. Do you really want to work for such a school?

The age thing is the same as so many "rules" in China and many other non-Western countries: if you have connections and "face" then you can bend the rules. Especially a rule like this. You're educated, you have experience, thus I'm sure you can get a job. Just don't jump at the first thing, take your time and apply very widely, eventually something will open up. Find an employer willing to fight for you a little bit.

BMO · Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 9

I definitely don't want to work for such a school, which is why I am rejecting any offers that don't include paid visas and accomodation. I've been getting so many offers like that though, that I decided to post here to see if it was the norm, and how likely I am to find decent work given the visa rules.

Most of the job searching I've been doing the past month or so has been through ads posted on this site's job boards, eslemployment.com and seriousteachers.com (and going through the various recruiters I find here and there) do you have any suggestions (either here or through PM) for places to apply to unversities or public schools directly?

Thanks

Simon in Suzhou · Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 404 Location: GZ

I guess i would say it depends what you and your wife are looking for. If you want to come to China for only 1 or 2 years I would keep knocking on doors until you find one that will get you a Z-visa up front. Most universities will shy away from you because you are essentially the same age as the students. Have you looked into the Buckland Group? They advertise here on Dave's. You won't get rich, but they are solid and I'm sure they could get you visas.

If you want to do the ESL thing for awhile, i would look into another Asian country which cannot be named on this forum, work there for a year or two, save some cash, then come over to China.

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

doogsville · Joined: 17 Nov 2011 Posts: 924 Location: China

It sounds more like they schools you are looking at are unlicensed and so can't get you the proper FEC and work permit. If they were legit they would have no problem getting you a z visa and then your FEC and work permit when you arrived. If your age was an issue a legit school would tell you from the outset that it was a problem. It sounds like they want you to come over on a tourist visa and then hit you with the 'there is a problem and we can't get you a work permit' bs. They'll might even tell you your age is the problem.

I don't know what the minimum age is, 25 rings a bell, but it's not carved in stone. Keep looking, there are plenty of jobs out there with licensed schools who can get you the necessary paperwork.

BMO · Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 9

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

BMO · Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 9

Also my wife is african (light brown skin) and wears hijab (muslim headscarf). How big is the race issue? I've been told her BA in english and tefl cert as well as my qualifications should make up for that but a few interviews have already gone the way of "do you have to wear that scarf?". Just wondering if anyone with experience working in China can comment on how big the race issue is? I know it exists, just want to know if it makes her finding work impossible or just a little harder.

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Little bit harder, but still very possible. Keep trying, you'll get something.

Mr. Leafy · Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 246 Location: North of the Wall

BMO, there are many Muslims in western China, including those who wear headscarves. I don't know if this would make things easier but you could try target schools in western cities and see if it goes easier. She'd have more of a faith community around her too, if that matters.

Other people have mentioned age-related jobs (more likely to get kid jobs). I am NOT doubting your credentials in any way but if employers do the math they might wonder how she got this experience at her age.

Currently 21 with 1-2 years experience (does that mean 'almost two'?) So that experience started at age 19 or 20. Minus four years for a BA (three if in the UK) means she entered uni at age 16. If she super clever and really did that, great, but I hope you are saying so. I've been in positions of hiring and I'd have to ask the applicant about it.

Of course, if the teaching experience was gained while in uni, this is not relevant and it would obviously be clear to someone looking at the whole resume.

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

China has a lot of Muslims and it usually isn't an issue. However there is discrimination against people from Xinjiang, mainly because many in that region haven't jumped on the China bandwagon and want more autonomy or independence. There are Africans in China, often living in neighborhoods of major cities. Those same cities have South Asian populations and many are Muslim. Most of the time we don't hear of major problems but there are some occasions after notorious incidents where I'm sure there is plenty of evil-eyed stares from the locals.

Some Africans are English teachers while the majority are business people or other. They are much more likely to get low-ball offers even if highly qualified compared to much less qualified caucasians from the US, UK etc. If your wife has an African passport, that will be much harder than if she has an American/British/Canadian/Australian/NZ one.

I wouldn't think the hajib would bring problems in China, but you have more experience in it than me. At my uni, a few of the foreign students (studying Chinese) wear them and at least one Chinese teacher that I know of also wears one.

Lancy Bloom · Joined: 23 Nov 2012 Posts: 126 Location: Hong Kong

You are setting yourself up for the new burn. You will work for 3 months on a tourist visa and then they will tell you the contract is not valid because the PSB refuses to give you the Z because you are too young. They will only do this if there is not another teacher already lined up to replace you though. You will be asked to work another 3 months on a tourist visa. In the end they will not give you an airfare allowance. Be like the Mormons and only work in China if you have access to a good Chinese lawyer.