Job Discussion Forums

[sixthchild]

Well unless you live in a cave you will have seen and heard that the once "Iron Lady is now at peace, may she rest in peace. Purely from an educational perspective, she was a global figure, I wonder how many of your students knew anything about her? Indeed, if they may have been affected in some way as a direct or indirect action that she was responsible for. In the U.K, there is a great emotional divide about what her legacy is and how many people admired her and so it seems a great number had the opposite reaction to the news of her death.
It seems in this day and age that people of her stature are generally unknown among young people, just my two cents worth, comments?

[santi84]

Correct, I do not know much about her

[sixthchild]

Its ok, not doubt the other members of this esteemed forum will enlighten you!

[coledavis]

Most non-British people regard her as a great figure, the Iron Lady. In Britain, she is a divisive figure. Those who speak in her support point out her battles with over-powerful unions, her sales of state housing (council houses) to tenants and her successful war in the Falklands. Those against speak of the wholesale destruction of industries without attempts at rehabilitating workforces, her selling off of national utilities and, as her enduring legacy, an atmosphere of greed, low-paid employment and a lack of respect for ordinary working people.

[sixthchild]

Which camp do you fall into? Or do you like to sit on the fence?

[coledavis]

When giving information - and people said they knew little about Thatcher - I like to give both sides of a discussion. However, having said my piece, I can definitely say that on the fence I do not stay. I am one of the people currently being berated for celebrating the death of 'the lady'. She contributed greatly to the destruction of my family, the impoverishment of much of Britain and an environment of short-sighted greed across the globe. I guess you could say I'm an anti..

[MdSmith]

She seemed to have irrepairably (?) damaged community spirit in many areas, particularly in the North. Yes it was nice to be able to buy more shiny plastic things in the 1990s and early 2000s but I would swap that for the lack of togetherness you see in England today. This is partly why I like to travel to countries that still have community bonds although everywhere seems to be going in the same direction, chasing economic growth rather than sustainability.

[Teacher in Rome]

I'm with coledavis on this one.

Thatcher started off axing free school milk for children, which is why she'll always be known to me as "Thatcher, Thatcher, Milk-Snatcher". She then proceeded to wage war on institutions, communities and "society" alike. She demolished manufacturing industry, destroyed public housing stock, and wreaked havoc on communities.

Although people say that some of what she did needed to be done - that the unions needed taming, and national institutions streamlining - once you start dismantling the building blocks of a state, you can't easily put them back. So weak unions means less bargaining power for employees, for example. Destroying manufacturing industry (without replacing it with anything "useful") only seems to increase unemployment. Selling off the housing stock in the end only benefits rapacious landlords. Stripping the country of its assets and flogging them off to speculators means we're all poorer in the end.

And we're not even getting near to her shameful foreign policy. Calling Mandela a terrorist, supporting Pinochet, cosying up to Ronald Reagan and his "axis of evil" ignorance. Refusing to allow democratically elected MPs to be heard on publicly owned TV or radio.

No, you can't say I'm sitting on the fence.

[Teacher in Rome]

And I just realised that my previous post has almost nothing to do with teaching, for which I apologise...

To drag it back on track, I tend not to go anywhere near politics in the classroom. Most of my students are too young to know anything about Thatcher, but there are a lot of 2nd or 3rd generation Italian-Argentinians in my classes. Whenever they tell me they're from Argentina, I always feel a bit embarrassed.

[johnslat]

Dear Teacher in Rome,

I believe you have your ignorant presidents confused (and boy, were they ever!)

George W. Bush was the "Axis of Evil" (Iran, Iraq, North Korea) guy

Ronald Reagan was the "Evil Empire" (USSR) guy

Oh, and Fede Alavarez is the "Evil Dead" (movie) guy (director).

Regards,
Evil John

[Shroob]

I teach in China and I haven't heard anything negative about her from my students. I try and present both sides to them and they often wonder why they haven't heard the negative before.

[HLJHLJ]

There's another thread on this in current affairs
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=101375

Personally, I have been surprised by the international news coverage. Both in terms of discovering that the international community were apparently unaware of just how hated she was, and also the extent to which the negative opinions are being covered now.

There are still plenty of people of her stature known today, but now they are recognised for what they are. You only have to look to the middle east to see how leaders who oppress and brutalise large swathes of their population are viewed today.

In an attempt to keep this one on topic, To what extent did she affected my students? Well they probably wouldn't have me as a teacher if it hadn't been for Thatcher I wouldn't have been forced to make the education and employment choices I did when I was young. It wouldn't have been such a struggle for me to get access to further and higher education. I would most likely have eventually become a school teacher and remained in the UK. Beyond that, I doubt it has much impact on them at all.

[Teacher in Rome]

@JohnSlat

oops! You are right! I knew that RR had co-opted evil in one form of another, just got my axis mixed up with my empire. Easily done!

Maybe "famous political quotes" will one day make its way into an ELT coursebook. There and again, that would probably be more fun for teachers than for students!

[Perilla]

I'm not surprised that most of the international community are unaware of how negatively Thatcher is viewed at home. This is often the case. Russia's Gorbachev is seen as a hero abroad for his part in bringing the Soviet Union to an end, but is reviled by many in Russia (for the same reason!). Barack Obama is viewed very positively overseas, but far less so in the US.

Back to Thatcher, similar to HLJHLJ, it's quite likely I wouldn't have ended up working abroad if it wasn't for her and her hardline politics of the early 80s. Until 1982 UK university graduates usually had little trouble finding career-oriented jobs at home. I graduated in '83 in the midst of massive unemployment and civil unrest. Very few of my fellow grads found "proper" jobs at that time, and of course by the time the country recovered we were competing against younger, fresh graduates. Many 1982-1984 graduates never caught up, or never found career jobs. And many have ended up going into TEFL. It would be interesting to find out how many Brits entered the TEFL profession in the 80s.

[jaffa]

Arthur Daley: That woman is a financial genius. She sold to the people what they already owned.

The best policy she introduced was the Poll Tax, because it got rid of her. I have fond memories of student demonstrations in London, usually ending with one almighty scrap with the Bill.