Job Discussion Forums

[CanadianBackpacker]

Hi everyone!

I am new the forum board, and also new to teaching abroad! I am graduating from university this Spring, and then travelling through Europe for just over two months. After that, I was planning on continuing on to Thailand in mid-September to teach for a year or two so I could try living in a foreign country and continue to travel while doing something meaningful (although I've heard teaching Thai's can be quite the handful). I've done my research and decided Thailand, specifically Bangkok, is where I would like to start out. Thailand seems laid back and a little bit less serious than the higher paying jobs in Korea and Japan, and Bangkok is a big city which is perfect since I am a city girl! Of course, I have a few questions and concerns. Here's a bit of information about me:

Age: 21 (turning 22 in December 2013)
Education: BA Honours in History at a Canadian University
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Sex: Female
Certification or experience: None
Planning to move to Thailand mid-September 2013

My first question is about certification. I know that of course it is better to be certified, but do I really need it in Thailand? I've read that CELTA or Trinity are the best certification to have, and they run a bit steep for me. The only thing I could really afford at the moment would be an online budget TEFL certification (something like i-to-i) and are those worth it or a waste of money? I've also read that online TEFL certifications are looked down on, and schools that will hire you with one would also probably hire you without one.
I of course would value the experience, because I have no real experience teaching. But would it be better just to be a grammar textbook and self-teach if I'm on a bit of a tight budget?

Also, I know the smartest decision is to move to Thailand and start applying there in person. Do you recommend agencies? Or just putting in the leg work and checking ads and posting resumes? And where should I stay the first few nights? Should I get an apartment before I land a job (so I have stable housing for my contact information on my resume) or wait until I get a job before getting an apartment (so I can find a place close to my school and avoiding that deadly traffic).

I have many more questions but I feel my post has run long enough. But basically I want to know if being a young female with a Canadian degree is good enough to live fairly comfortable in Bangkok or should I try and get some sort of accreditation? And what monthly salary should I be expecting? (I know 35,000 baht is achievable but still on the low end, could I possibly make more with my qualifications at the moment?) How much money should I bring with me to tie me over before I land a job?

Sorry for the long post, but any advice for a newbie to teaching in Bangkok would be greatly appreciated!

[sigmoid]

It's deja vu all over again. I'm sure these same questions have been answered many times before. Is there no sticky/FAQ on this topic?

You don't need a certificate to teach in Thailand, but having one would be better as some schools require them. You can get one later, but if you do, get the CELTA, which will illustrate that you are a "team player" who's willing to "go the extra mile" to be a part of "the club".

Yes, do some reading up about Teaching English as a Foreign Language. I'm sure there are a multitude of books and websites available.

There's no need to use an agency. There are lots of jobs around, although the time you're coming is in the middle of the academic year nearly between terms. Of course, language schools hire all year. Why don't you look at some online job postings and lists of schools. Maybe decide what kind of school you would like to teach at? Kindergarten? University?

Shop around as much as possible and consider every offer very carefully.

Find temporary budget accommodation in Banglampoo or Thewet or... (somewhere else, do some research, get some names and addresses) Worry about apt after you find work. Commuting in BKK is hell. You want to be pretty close to your school. (as you already know)

[CanadianBackpacker]

Thanks for the quick response!

The boards (Thailand and Newbie) have been very helpful, but I never quite found someone in the same predicament as me (young female looking for work in Bangkok without any qualifications). Most of the female-related posts are about safety, which is surprisingly not one of my main concerns (not sure if it should be?) I decided to post just to get some assurance that yes, I can get work in a relatively small period of time! Landing in a new country you have never been to before and not knowing a soul without job prospects is a pretty daunting thing! But very exciting at the same time!

It's interesting you mentioned maybe connecting with someone online to help me out and show me the ropes, and I've considered that also. Would you know any sites that would be good for connecting with people already settled in BKK? (I've checked Craigslist for housing and renting rooms, but seems it is not the most popular site to use there) I am fairly familiar with this forum board, as well as ajarn.com. Also, is it common for people to room together, or have multiple roommates to split costs?

Just coming from University I have no problem economizing (noodles everyday is unfortunately already a staple in my life - but I definitely know how to live frugally as a student in an expensive city!) I've lived with multiple roommates for all four years of university and actually prefer it to living alone, but I was not sure if that was common in BKK as I've never seen any forums for it.

[sigmoid]

Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a predicament. In many ways, you're the perfect candidate, especially for jobs teaching children.

Even more important is your appearance and personality. If you at least moderately attractive, well-groomed, and stylishly but conservatively dressed with a happy helpful light personality, then you should have several offers from which to choose.

So, don't worry about work. Also, don't worry about housing. Find a comfortable guesthouse, spend a few days getting acclimatized, meet some people, both locals and visitors and things will fall into place. Be patient, be cautious, i.e. don't just take the first job you're offered, don't move into the first place you find, ask a lot of questions.

In terms of safety, do a search on "Thailand scams" to start. In fact, you should use this time before you go to do a lot of online research.

Shared housing isn't that common, but there's no reason you couldn't share a 2-BR townhouse, for example.

Finally, remember that you can teach in most any other country around Thailand if things don't seem to be working out for you there.

[ippollite]

on the scam thing, i honestly would just familiarise yourself with the big ones... but generally dont panic too much. I spent the two months leading up to it watching scam cities, reading all about thailand scams and watching that programme following the sweet tourist police dude. I arrived a week ago and i was paranoid as hell. Taxi drivers definitely overcharge you whenever they can (chuuaii, chai mee-tuuur, duaiiii khrap! (could you please use the meter!), but aside that, ive felt completely safe walking around late at night, and no ones tried to scam or pick pocket me anywhere. It feels a lot like korea. Dont let your guard down of course, but its not anywhere near as bad as the telly might make you think... i should at this point remind you im just about starting week 2 so my opinion is pretty much irrelevant. I just think those programmes paint it in the worst possible light. Im living in Khlong Toei, i walk anywhere within 5kms and its pretty damn mellow. This aint london. It seems pretty chill. A friendly sawaadii khrap/khaa seems to go pretty far.

One thing i would recommend though... (possibly unnecessary from a jobs standpoint i assume here, what do i know?), but get some experience in the 6 or so months as a classroom assistant. It will give you an idea of what youre getting into and also does of course help applications (though if demand outstrips supply as it seems too...). Just contact some schools or youth clubs in your area. Every bit of experience helps when you first start out. From my own, (admittedly non thai) related ESL experience, training is minimal at best, and your usually thrown in the deep end. Shadowing a teacher in a public school will at least give you some idea on what works and what doesnt for the age groups youre planning on working with.

[CanadianBackpacker]

I will definitely do more research on scams. I'm aware of the more common ones you've mentioned (I've heard a lot of about taxi drivers ripping off foreigners) I've never been to Korea, but I have been to Japan and I know it is very safe and clean there and I am picturing Thailand very differently!

Are you down there teaching? And have you found any luck yet? (With job offers or apartments etc.?) Would be nice to hear from another newbie! But glad to hear you are enjoying yourself and staying safe! What else did you do to prepare besides researching scams?

I have some friends with placements in early childhood education so I will definitely ask them for any advice or tips that they have when it comes to teaching and making course plans, discipline etc. But I am sure the Canadian education system is very different than the Thai one, but any advice can help!

Thanks for your input, would love hearing more about how you are doing in your first few weeks in Thailand! Good Luck!

[nomad soul]

I agree with ippollite. If you don't intend to get a TEFL cert, then over the next few months, at least volunteer as a classroom assistant at one of your local ESL or refugee centers for some hands-on experience and guidance. (Getting teaching tips from friends won't cut it.)

As for connecting with others before heading to Thailand, do an Internet search on expat forum bangkok for sites about living/working in Bangkok.

[tttompatz]

Don't watch too much television.

If you hang out in places like Patpong, Nana and Khao San Road there are lots of bad people who will try to take advantage of stupid, young, wide-stary-eyed tourists (and that is what you will look like).

Get away from the tourist spots and it is safer than Vancouver or Toronto.

University graduate (all the credentials you LEGALLY need to find work), young, willing to work with kids and (depending on the time of year) you will have job opportunities all over the place.

I strongly suggest you actually spend some time (one day per week?) actually working/playing with little kids (K-6 age) before you come over (if you have time). It will serve you well when it comes time for classroom management to become an issue for you.

Sept is not a bad time to move to Thailand (April is much better in terms of finding a good job) but at least you will find something in the tropics to tide you over the cold, Canadian winter.

As far as the job search goes. Do NOT find a job from abroad.
Do NOT believe the TEFL course providers websites (they are in the business of selling dreams).
Do NOT use an agency unless you are desperate. (you WILL regret it).
Get a double entry tourist visa from the Thai consulate in Canada (effectively give you 6 months to get yourself sorted).
Have about $2000-3000 in your bank account before you get on the plane and AFTER you have bought your plane ticket.
Fly to Thailand.
Get a short term rental or room in a guest house.
Find a job.
Find an apartment near your job.
Get your non-b visa sorted.
Enjoy your year or 3 in the Land Of Smiles (LOS)

You will need a basic cell phone. They are CHEAP to buy here. Basic Android phones run from about $100 (no plan to sign on to, prepaid, unlocked).

.

[ippollite]

Apartments are reaaaaaaallly easy to find. You can score one overseas from 10-20 thousand baht per month with mod cons. You can score MUCH cheaper though if youre less fussy. But meh, i like mod cons Having a pool to chill in at the end of the day is just all kinds of excellent.

Jobs are certainly plentiful. When employers are contacting you because you put your resume up, or reply within twenty minutes to a speculative application, then its a teachers market in many ways. Demand for teachers seems to massively outstrip supply. Hell, if you can be legal, and demand is so intense that theres a bit of a blind eye to non permit holding foreigners then finding a job isnt that hard once youre here. Just post your resume on ajarn and have a professional photograph (formal/business wear) and youll probably get hit up fairly quickly.

Get a reference or two. Bring your original degree certificate. You might as well get your criminal record check done. Its not a necessity like in Korea, but so long as its clean and current its just one more thing that you can fire off to employers just to make you appear legit.

And agree with all thats been said so far... teaching is hands on. Tips wont help you. You need to be in the classroom. Its not necessary for the job, im pretty sure youll find one easy enough when you get here, but it will be for your own sanity. It lets you hit the ground running. It can be rather initimidating standing in front of 40 or so students with no experience. Shadowing will definitely give you some classroom management skills which means you can walk into that first class with some degree of authority... again, not necessary, you can just learn on the job, but as i say training is scarce ive found, and crucial feedback (and assessment) is non existent. You might do a demonstration class once a year, but theyre never blind, you always get massive notice to prep them and its all a bit artificial. So helping out in a school means you can learn in a few classes what you might take entire years to figure out thanks to all the dead ends youll likely end up on. Definitely worth the effort if only for your own sanity... plus it means you have a reference directly related to teaching and once again this puts you ahead of the curve a bit.

If you are planning on teaching at private language schools rather than public schools (probably a better option if you fancy making a career teaching ESL to be honest), then assisting in those classes will fill you with stacks of activities that clearly work in that smaller scale environment. No matter what, its win win.

As for Bangkok, fun place so far. If you love animals and arent afraid of dogs, get your rabies shots and if you do feed them dont feed them by hand! common sense of course but im so prone to anthropomorphism that i always let my guard down with dogs. Ive been bitten so many times in my life that im tetanus immune, but im actually on the way out of the house right now to get my second (of five rabies) shot. Basically if youre a bit of a soft touch with animals, probably get your PRE exposure rabies immunisation. And remember if you have any scratch, rabies is passed on in saliva. So a dog licking you there exposes you to it. And thai dogs have an almost 10% incidence of rabies. Pretty good odds. Best to assume they all have it. Also they are pretty much all over the place. Youll be surprised just how bountiful they are. In a short walk to 7/11 (about 15 minutes) theres 1 at my apartment block, 3 on the first 2-3 minute short street, turning the corner theres another 4. After that its a main road with a sentry for the 4 or 5 dogs in the abandoned hotel. I dunno what its like the rest of bangkok but my area definitely has a few.

Pro Tip: if youre not used to dogs, first if they seem aggressive (very few are) in any manner dont let them get close to you. In Thailand the easiest way to do this is to stand your ground and tell them from the pit of your lungs to shut the hell up. If that doesnt work a gesture that youre picking up something from the floor like a stone or stick (even if theres nothing there) will immediately have them run away. If there is a stick, of course pick it up. Even if theyre nice, and they like you they will follow you down a street if youre prone to feeding them (i am), always keep an eye on them, never let any of them out of your sight, since dogs out of your sight might have a wee nip. Its just something dogs do even when they like you. Its just playing for the most part but sometimes it can be a sign that they think you need to know your place and it can break the skin which means a trip to the hospital for your shots. So always keep them in sight and be ready to swiftly stamp your authority if you feel theyre getting a bit cheeky. Basically best to always ignore them, but if youre a softie, its understandable you might want to give them something.

If you are terrified of dogs though, dont panic. It just means youll need to get taxis a bit more. I like walking around but im definitely in a minority by the looks of things

[plumpy nut]

They bite in packs. One dog is growling the other comes up from behind. that happened to me twice. I would hope that everyone here would know that if you get bitten in Thailand you have to get rabies shots. Every year people mostly children die from rabies in Thailand, the rabies being contracted from dog bites.

Taxi rip offs is a minor nuisance. When overcharging they mostly over charge when it's rush hour. They sometimes overcharge you or they just refuse to take you.

[CanadianBackpacker]

Thank you for all of the replies!

I definitely will look into getting some hands-on experience with teaching children in a classroom. Hopefully if I can put a few good hours in I won't run into stage fright when teaching my own class in Thailand (I've heard the first few classes are very nerve wracking)

It's also very nice to hear that jobs and apartments are plentiful! Would everyone recommend private language schools over public? I was under the impression that private schools required some sort of teaching certification and experience but I will absolutely apply to both. Also, is there any recommended grade to try and aim for or avoid? or does it all come down to preference? Since I do not have much experience teaching I really have no clue what ages I'd like to teach, and it is certainly something I need to research more!

And I was also curious about how much I should be spending on an apartment (assuming I'm making anywhere between 40-50k a month). I really am not fussy at all! A clean apartment with a clean bed, western washrooms and reliant security is really all I'd require, but having a pool does sound very nice ippollite! Are there certain questions I should be asking when choosing an apartment? And I'm assuming it is normal to put a down payment of first and last months rent as well as a safety deposit of some sort? I've heard stories of people having trouble getting their deposits back.

And as for dogs, I think I'll just stay away from them and not risk it! As much as I'm a sucker for animals I usually never touch animals when I travel anyways, especially dogs. They are usually unpredictable and if not rabies its flees or ticks or something like that! Scary to hear they travel in packs. What do people do to prevent dog attacks? Pretending to pick up a stick or a rock seems like a good tip, but I'm sure that does not always work! But yes, if I ever get bitten I will make sure to get to the hospital ASAP!

That brings me to insurance. Does your place of employment give you some sort of insurance? I know when looking into insurance in a foreign country the coverage should be fairly high, especially if you need to be flown back to your own country; costs can run extremely high if something goes very wrong! Do you suggest insuring myself from abroad to ensure I am covered properly, or is being insured by your employer pretty standard? Chances are I won't need serious medical attention, but you really never know. I'm Canadian and not used to paying for health care ever! :p

[tttompatz]

Cost of apartments will vary depending on where you are (4000-40,000). If you are outside of BKK the costs are very reasonable (I pay 3000 for a 3 bedroom, 2 bath townhouse with all the mod cons).

Deposits vary from as low as $100 to as much as $1000.

Medical is NOT usually offered to EFL teachers and when it is it is usually substandard. Bupa is the most common https://www.bupa.co.th/en/individuals/health-insurance/get-quote-plan.aspx?t=&iid=2&gids=&a=21&class=2 for expats and you can get packages that will send you home or cover you at private hospitals in Thailand. Costs of 1000-3000 thb/month for most plans.

You better plan a budget/plan for a salary of 30-40k fresh off the plane.

As to public or private... I assume you mean k-12 (government or private) vs language academies (after school and weekends). To each their own. There are pros and cons to all 3.

.

[ippollite]

Private Versus Public is honestly a personal choice. You get a tonne of fulfillment in public school i personally feel (but since i am singularly a public school teacher i cant claim you get any more than private), and it feels like a genuine classic teaching gig. You also get downtime between classes to prep or study or whatever it is you do. Well, at least in Korea and Japan you do. I think Thailand has slightly higher workload... ESID.

I should add on the public thing that the JET programme is the grandaddy of all publci school positions. Everyone thinking abut teaching in Asia, (and have a degree) should be applying for this. Its one of the best paid positions out there and comes with some amazing opportunities and networks. Applications start around september, you would have to return to canada in January/February if you make it to the interview stage, and you will probably have to attend the 2 day induction in June/July (though i think you can get a waiver on this if youre teaching overseas). But so long as you can find a week free in your schedule theres no reason you couldnt apply for this while working in Thailand, and i think its honestly well worth it.

Private teaching on the other hand seems to have a legitimate career path. And if you are well liked by your students and valuable to the company youll get the pay reflecting this. Its also a year round industry and has much more openings on average which allows for greater flexibility. It gets less holidays mind you, but usually the pay helps alleviate this. Dangers (in korea more so than thailand i assume) are 11 month firings (to save on severance/air fare) and competition driving your school out of business and you back on the job market when times get hard. You also lose a lot of students through no fault of your own and can be held accountable for it. On the flip, you gain students through no fault of your own and held in regard for it. This is pretty general though, and im sure others on the forums are in a much better place to inform you.

As for apartments just look up apartment or serviced apartment Thailand into your favorite search engine and have a look at whats available. Trip advisor and Agoda both come with some reviews to read as well (though for the life of me i couldnt find anything but the daily rates on those sites).

An alternative and possibly better is just to book a place in one of the more central areas for a few days. Then spend a day or two walking around the regions youre looking to stay and pop in and get the prices for longer term stays. I couldnt really do that because i er, have a snowboard bag with me and dont really fancy moving around every other week with the damn thing. So committed to the one place.

As i say, with dogs, most of them wont even notice you. Theyre incredibly placid for the most part. They get a bit more active at night, but in the heat theyre pretty much dead to the world. If you do have a sentry barking though, you have to shut it down right away because its basically telling all its mates youre there and they will start popping up to see. And they gain a hell of a lot more courage (and will act more aggressive) once the pack leader starts eyeballing you. If you let the sentry push you around or encroach on you, the others GUARANTEED will also do the same. Dont let them get anywhere near you and if that means picking up a big stick and shouting at them or throwing a rock in their vague direction, you do that. If you try and ignore the first dog, the others will follow and the situation is going to escalate. So best way to avoid it is to shut it down right away and understand that the sentry is usually a massive wuss and can be easily intimidated. So active prevention. That being said theres only one group that are mildly aggressive around my area. Havent come across any genuinely aggressive packs im glad to say.
Most seem to a certain degree domesticated thanks to their relationship with the thai people in the area (street vendors and security guards who do genuinely look after them).

On the subject of insurance, most of the jobs ive seen come with insurance. But obviously youll need some insurance for the month or so when you arrive looking for work.

Finally, two things ive learned. First, street market prices you might think are going to be cheaper than shop prices at the mall. WRONG. Dont make the mistake i made and just assume youre getting a cheaper deal because its a haggly place with loads of clear knock off stuff. Shops have great shopping way cheap. Even in a place like terminal 21 theres loads of awesome little shops with some decent quality clothes comparative and even far cheaper than the stalls in patpong. As for markets, the ones around chinatown are really handy as a guide on prices since they dont seem to start from absurdly inflated prices. You learn pretty quick from a wee journey around there what things are worth on the markets. I wish i could give you a general guide on what you need to be paying, but im still learning as i go. Ive tried pushing tshirts to 100 but usually its byebye at that point. It seems 120-150 is about as low as theyll go around pingpong, and shorts ive pushed down to 200. Market vendors will honestly start around 300 on tshirts and 800 on shorts knowing full well that youll try pulling them down. Dont remotely meet half way Spend some time haggling and getting a feel of the prices before you start squandering your cash. Its easy to think "its just 100baht" but remember youre gonna be on not that great a wage soon enough. Best to have cash to tied you over.

Which i guess reminds me, you can buy stuff here way cheap. So you can pack light when you come over and buy it here instead of going on a spending spree in Canada a week or so before you come.
Lots of rambly things just from a noobie perspective. Hopefully some of it helps... though i would take all of it under advisement and listen more to the more experienced heads out there.