Job Discussion Forums

[SunShan]

Hi guys!

I'm just about to finish my BA English and Linguistics degree, and have registered for the CELTA course in July. I don't have much teaching experience - just 80 hours as a classroom assistant in England. Last year I spent a month in Beijing on a scholarship studying Mandarin at BLCU, and I want to go back to Beijing and teach English.

I've been thinking about applying for a position with Beijing Teach, Expertise Education and other such companies - but there seems to be mixed opinions about these companies and agents.

A lot of people seem to find better jobs (not advertised on the internet) whilst they are in Beijing, but I prefer to secure a job with Z-Visa, accommodation etc if possible before I commit to leaving England.

What do people think about these companies? & what should I be aiming for as a wage & package? Seems that people will accept between 5-10,000RMB a month, sometimes flights & accommodation included, sometimes not.

Also, some people seem to have no degree, just a degree in any subject with no extra qualification. But I'm serious about making a career teaching English so I want as professional a position as I can get, hopefully where the students are keen to learn. I'm not too worried about age groups, though I would prefer to work in a school rather than evenings and weekends in a private language school like EF.

Any thoughts and advice much appreciated! Thanks.

[Shroob]

[SunShan]

Shroob, thanks for your reply.

It's a daunting prospect to go to Beijing and hunt for job with risk of not finding anything better than a recruiter, then even end up going back home and wasting money.

I completely agree about 'who you know', however, I don't know anyone teaching in BJ so I may have to accept the dreaded recruiter postion and spend a year searching for something on my own. I really just need experience and to find my feet.

Research is difficult as everyone paints a pretty picture, or the language barrier is difficult.

[Shroob]

[choudoufu]

beijing may be difficult. you may find they are strict about requiring
2 years experience after graduation

[SledgeCleaver]

I more or less agree that you shouldn't be too strict about it being Beijing. You might say, "Oh, I know the place, I have friends there," but for example a job in Tianjin or similar would allow you to get to Beijing quite easily for weekends or holidays. And you never know, maybe you'd like the city you end up in even more.

Similarly, once you're in country you'll probably have jobs falling into your lap. Even if your first job isn't in Beijing, just visit there and show up in-person, looking all professional and dapper and Western. Works in most countries outside of Europe; consider that for employers, hiring someone over email is more "luck of the draw" and possibly more work, especially for someone without experience, whereas when you're standing there in front of them, ready to walk into a classroom, you'll have an extremely good chance of being hired. You might have to turn down jobs, at least until your first contract is up.

So yeah. Don't forget that if your goal is Beijing, you don't need to land in China with a job in Beijing. You could easily sit out a job in a city nearby for 6 months or a year, and work your way over there. You'll have a year of experience under your belt and you'll slide in easily.

However, if you were there for a month or whatever, didn't you already consider this course of action? Do you have any "boots on the ground" there, ie. a friend who could ask around for you, or who might know someone who works in a language center or uni? A personal recommendation, even secondhand, could be worth its weight in gold compared to sending random emails to people you don't know.

I second the advice about not coming without a Z-visa.

[Denim-Maniac]

I had a friend who worked for Expertise in BeiJing a few years ago. They employed him without a degree or Celta and he worked in a kindergarten for about 6 months. Whilst he had no problems with them, it would seem like your education, skills and dedication to EFL might be wasted in such a position.

And I would say ditto for your desire to work in schools really. Id guess that you are least likely to find a professional working environment in a state school, and your professional ambitions are more likely satisfied with someone like EF (assuming you work in an adult learning centre) or with someone like Wall Street. Wall Street can be sticklers over the two year experience rule so not sure if you could get in with them but it would be worth applying for them.

Being familiar with Celta, I know they have a focus on adult students in small classes. As a trainee you learn how to approach the teaching of all skills including the use of grammar. Im not familiar with your degree course, but Id imagine its some of the same. That is, a focused approach to language learning. All of this might be a polar opposite to working in a high school or vocational college where you will likely encounter 50 students, of mixed ability and you teaching mandate is 'just speak English to them'.

You have a decent, related degree. Assuming you pass the Celta, and assuming you can teach ... you'd probably be a shoe-in for a more senior position within a large language school after a 2 or 3 years.

[amemorylost]

The problem you have when it comes to getting reputable positions in Beijing is that you are coming straight from university. 2 years teaching experience is required when it comes to your prospective employer getting your visa. Some provinces are less rigid than others, but Beijing is one of the more strict places in China. This is not to say that recent graduates don't teach in Beijing on Z-Visas: if an employer wants you bad enough and has sufficient pull with the Foreign Experts Bureau, they can get it done. But it'll be a struggle to come straight to Beijing or Shanghai in the way that I'm going to suggest.

People on this forum tend to be in two camps when it comes to approaching ESL in China: the university+side job camp and the language-company camp. I'm a huge fan of the former, though I've transitioned to the latter this year for a management position (which is one of the deficiencies the university approach in the long term).

Firstly, the simplest route to take is to take your CELTA in Beijing and let them set you up with a teaching job afterwards. I don't have any experience with this route beyond having a roommate that did this, but it seems to me that this would be the easiest way of starting out.

Secondly,I would personally avoid being brought here by a language institute. Seeing the place for yourself, in person, and interacting with the management who will be employing you for your time here will give you a good sense of whether they are going to screw you around, and you don't really get that sense through Skype or emails. If you do go the institute route, I'd stick with a bigger name like EF or New Oriental. I dislike both but they are at least relatively trustworthy companies in Beijing.

Finally, I would personally recommend finding a university. If I was you, I'd compile a list of emails for the foreign offices of universities in Beijing, and then mass email your CV and brief introduction. I'd recommend trying to find the smaller universities, as the packages offered by bigger places like Tsingua and Peking are quite poor.

If you go the university route, find out if you will be teaching English-language majors, humanities majors or Science/Business majors. Most reports on this board about depressing university jobs come from classes where students from majors without a regular focus on English are forced into taking an English-language module. Aim for teaching English majors, as your degree area allows you to market yourself towards the more technical ESL classes.

University salaries in Beijing go from 4,000rmb to 10,000rmb, though most will not have more than 20 hours attached. I'd aim for 6,000rmb - 12 hours and then pick up extra hours part-time to supplement your income. Despite what people suggest, saving money in Beijing is not difficult and earning upwards of 20k is do-able this way.

Institutes have higher salaries (averaging 12-14k) but measure this with the higher number of hours you're likely to work (20-30), and the fewer holidays you'll have.

You are right when you say that it's easier to get jobs here when you're actually living here, and so I think in your position I'd focus more on stability and security for your first year. With those considerations, I'd very much warn against having an institute bring you here, and instead would try to email as many universities as possible and try to find one who thinks they can get a Z-visa.

[Non Sequitur]

[Non Sequitur]

Duh
Double post

[Asiateacher]

I don't know... I was in Beijing working many years ago. I worked in Dell International English (or whatever their called). They were OK, but employed all kinds of "white faces" that couldn't speak any English. Maybe they've changed now. Other than that, I don't have much experience in Beijing

[halfmoon]

Just don't go there. There's a great big beautiful world outside freezing, dusty, dirty, noisy polluted Beijing - and most other places don't have rude, spitting inhabitants either!

[Non Sequitur]

[choudoufu]