Job Discussion Forums

[bacalao]

Hi all,

So I have an offer that I'm proceeding with at what I think is a respectable university.

Here's the problem: I originally found out about the job from a recruiter. He put me in touch with an assistant FAO at the university, and since she interviewed me, she has handled all communication about the hiring (though the recruiter checked in once to see how it was going). She has a .edu email address that matches with the university. Also, the uni is above-board on obtaining a Z visa for me before my departure.

Now, for shady stuff: I found a detailed, apparently evenhanded account online of how the specific recruiter I'm dealing with lured a teacher into a classic bait-and-switch. He supposedly supplied fake photos of the apartment and school, giving the applicant the impression the photos were supplied by the school (the FT didn't explain why he believed the photos came directly from the school, i.e. whether the recruiter had a different email set up for the purpose, or whether the FT just believed the recruiter was acting as a legitimate middleman). Upon arrival, the FT was taken to a different school and a different, rubbish bog of an apartment. He bailed, not blaming the actual school, who he said had entrusted the process to the recruiter and had only actually been in contact with him for the interview.

The other thing he mentioned was multiple fake FT email testimonies about the school, and when he arrived, he was the only one there. This reminds me of my experience, as I am quite sure the FT testimony I received was at the very least heavily edited/redacted by a school employee or recruiter (though it did include some euphemistic negatives).

I do want the position, if it is where it claims to be and and for the school who I believe I'm in direct contact with. So I am here to ask for advice on how much weight I can put on the fact that the school will obtain a Z visa for me in advance (if this falls through, of course the offer's out of the question), and that I am corresponding with someone with the appropriate .edu address. I know recruiters get maligned as a group, and because there is one in my employment triangle, I am wondering whether I should automatically assume there is some scam in the works.

The other difference for me and the reported victim, is that s/he seemed to already be in China when he got the position, so he didn't have to be sponsored for a Z by the school I don't think (maybe I'm wrong about this, since I'm still learning the ins and outs of the work permit process).

If I get a contract and a work visa with the school's name on it (am I right that the Z visa would be tied up with the uni's name) before I go, should I be all right, even if there's a potential highwayman watching from the wing? I know, either way, there's got to be something in it for him, but I'm not sure how much.

[Javelin of Radiance]

[roadwalker]

Yeah, what JoR said. There are no guarantees, even with well established public schools, but if they do send you the right paperwork, it's a good sign.

Yes it's possible when already in China to avoid the need for another z-visa and instead get a new Foreign Expert Certificate for the new school (you'll get one after you arrive on a z-visa) and a new Residence Permit (you'll get one after the school has secured a Foreign Expert Certificate for you).

In this case, the recruiter is probably working for a flat fee, since you appear to be dealing with the school directly. If it does go south, and you are certain it was a bait and switch, please be sure to name and shame all involved. In any case, good luck!

[BlueBlood]

Thank goodness for this forum. It honestly never occurred to me this could happen.

I can only imagine arriving at "my future home and life" to find something completely different than previously promised. That would be hell. "Well, here I am in (fill-in-the-blank Chinese city), and I'm sitting in a hotel room with all my luggage, no job, no friends, and no idea what to do next. Great."

It's not like one could just jump on the next plane home--he just gave up home to start a new life on the other side of the world. Geesh....

[Bud Powell]

I've always followed my gut. If I heard something bad about a school, I avoided it.

It's not at all uncommon for the school to provide the recruiter with a school email address. This can be good and bad. The bad part is when the recruiter tells lies because she doesn't know anything about the school. The good part is that the school can check up on the correspondence between the recruiter and the prospective FT.

If the person to whom one is speaking uses a school email, be direct and ask if the recruiter is actually a salaried employee of the school or a recruiter. Usually, the recruiter will admit that she's using the school email. That can lead to questions regarding how well she knows the school. Often, recruiters who use the school's email address have an ongoing relationship with the school, though not always.

That's why i follow my gut.

[Big Worm]

Can't believe nobody has said this yet, but talk to (actually talk) a current ft. Don't accept an email, who knows who and when that came from. Don't use a chat program, who knows exactly who is there. Get someone on the phone. You will know in a second if it a real ft or not. Then ask your questions.

[Bud Powell]

[GreatApe]

As usual, J of R gives some very solid advice, and I agree. If the school can get you a Z visa while you're still in your home country, then that's a good sign ... if they cannot, I would be more suspicious. The contract you sign should list the exact school(s) at which you will work. If it does not, then you have an "out."

Having said that, it's NOT highly unusual that two schools work together to supply the needed documentation for a FT who wants to come to work here. The International program of the high school where I am currently working is brand new. The school has filed for the official certification needed to hire FTs, but has not yet received the actual certificate they need from the Bureau of Education (they expect to receive it before the end of the school year, and to be able to hire FTs on their own next year).

In the meantime, the high school where I work 90% of the time has contracted through a local training center (where I teach V.I.P. and Exam Prep. students for 2 hours per week) to hire me, and to arrange my Z visa, F.E.C., and R.P. The training center is owned by a company in Hong Kong, and is very well familiar with the visa requirements for FTs teaching and living in Guangdong province (one of the most difficult provinces to get certified).

Both schools are listed on my contract and I get paid by both schools, although the high school pays the larger share of my salary and the training center really acted in the capacity of a "recruiter" in my situation.

Long story short, just because you have an email address with "edu" in it, and just because you're communicating with someone AT that email address, does not guarantee that it's legitimate. It's COMMON for Chinese teachers to get paid to recruit students for their schools and FTs for their teaching staffs! My former vice-principal was supplementing his v.p. salary and doing VERY, VERY WELL doing exactly that at my old school.

On the other hand, just because people (or schools) are collaborating to recruit you and working together to arrange your visa and paperwork DOES NOT necessarily mean you will end up being kidnapped to teach English in some desolate, isolated moonscape-of-a-city.

You should, however, be careful and vigilant (and, I think, err on the side of caution rather than Trust). However, if they arrange a Z visa for you and you get it before you leave your home country, you are guaranteed a chance to bail on the job, school, situation once you actually get here. You can feel safe in knowing that if it's a HORRIBLE scenario and "uninhabitable" for you to work at that school, that your Z visa will (AT WORST) allow you to get out of the country.

Long story short, BOTH situations are very "Real." FTs looking to come to work in China need to do their homework and research first, before they hop on a plane from their country of origin. My advice would be to bring enough money for a worst-case-scenario (and CYA)!

Good Luck!

--GA