Job Discussion Forums

[alleybcb]

For those of you who don't know your visas, Z is work F is visitors. I have an F currently after a guy in another city had me teaching illegally with this one. I shortly after moved to Datong. The school here insists it is ok as long as I have the Foreign Expert Card (little red book) Well, I don't have the residence permit (Green book) Everything I have read said it was only ok if I had the Green book. Well, visa's up. They want of course to continue a F visa cause it's cheaper. Is this legal?

[nolefan]

I am sorry if I seem harsh or condescending but this topic has been discussed to death more than a gazillion times.......

use the freaking "SEARCH" link

[Volodiya]

Sorry, it appears to me you can't work legally, nor get a resident permit, with an "F" visa. (Other posters correct me, if you can point me to some Chinese law that says otherwise.)
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Check out the following for a summary of the rules relating to permission to work in China- /www.chinatoday.com/; then, click on "Laws and Regulations"; then, "Rules for Administration of Employment of Foreigners...."

It's wordy in the English translation, but seems to me to be a current and authoritative statement of the Chinese law on this subject.

There have been a lot of useful comments from others on this subject, but I think you can sum it up by saying, 1) your institution has to have previously gotten permission to employ foreign specialists; 2) they must then request permission to hire YOU, based on your qualifications; 3) when that is approved, you can get (they can then get you) a "Z" visa and apply for permission for you to reside in China.

You may enter the country on a variety of visas, but to work legally, you must have gotten a "Z" visa. As you will see in Article 8 of the material mentioned above, a "Z" visa can be issued to you in China.
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In the meantime, get your "F" visa extended if you can, as you are now in the country illegally, in addition to working illegally.

Hope this helps a little.

[Roger]

The schools often claim - sometimes actually believing their own nonsense - that an "F" visa is as good as a work visa; it isn't. And, you can't legally obtain your residence permit either - some employers do get them, though, and Dog only knows how they manage just that - mnaybe guanxi...

Once you have such an ill-gotten residence permit, you can't move house legally. Any employer who wishes to enlist your service must apply direct to the PSB, and then, they will have to get a residence permit based on the PSB approval of your employment.

Your new employer seems to be under some illusion too: they cannot employ you legally just because you already possess that residence permit; THEY MUST APPLY FOR IT!

[alleybcb]

[lagerlout2006]

alley- don't feel bad. Search I find difficult unless I know the exact title of a thread..Anyway after a year here I am still confused about this..I think the green book is all that really matters. Z is a temporary thing that gets you residence. My Z is expired (THAT topic has also been done a lot) and the green book rules. The red book allows you to change money and (maybe ) confirms you are still employed.

So I would be worried with no green book . Nuff said. A Chinese co-hort should be able to the right phone number to call quite easily. If, that is , you can find a working phone.

[arioch36]

The Foreign Expert Certificate is worthless, except it makes a good souveneir. It is school specific. Look in it, I think it says you should return it to the school when you leave? (if it is the real thing). It's only use is for changing RMB into real money.

Your new school probably doesn't have the legal right to hire you. I will try to get the Henan PSB to write the new changes for all of us. Technically your z-visa should be current. Mine has no dates. It is a one entry visa. Your residence permit allows you to leave the country, and shows you have the legal right to work here. I believe, believe that you have 30 days after arriving to apply for your residence permit (if you are here on a z-visa)





Yes, use the search button on this topic, please

[Stosskraft]

Hey, I have just got my passport back from my school after a few weeks. I notice I have a F visa and no green or red bookie. I also noticed that the expiry date is one month before the end of my contract???

Can someone explain how I get one of these books? I am concerned about converting my RMB in US Dollar when I leave.

Thanks

[arioch36]

Stoss, looks like your school shafted you. My guess is that your school has no legal right to hire you. Do you work at a college, or a "language school"?

The city you are in has a PSB Public Security Bureau office especially for these matters. Most schools don't want to tell their foreign teachers where. Go there and you can ask bluntly ...so and so school wants to hire me ..can they legally?

No z visa, no green and red cards. That's the way it works

[Stosskraft]

Hey arioch36:
I was hired by a private school, Modern English. I am in a small town and I don't think they will have a PSB office.
What do you recommend as my next step? I am already having a ton of troubles with the school about my contract. I have approached both the director and the owner with my concerns, in hope of reaching some sort of agreement, but It seems hopeless.
I am considering the "runner" soon, but this is obviously the last resort. But if I am working illegally, what options do I have???

Thanks

[woza17]

Absolute cause to be concerned. If you are working on an F visa you are illegal. Leave and find a legal job.
I entered China on a Z visa asked the school to get me my residence permit, not knowing much at that time I was given a foreign experts card thinking everything was fine. After my contract had finished and I was working in Dongguan my visa expired and I left to go to Hong Kong. I was not allowed to leave the country because I had z visa but no residence card. I agree with the above poster a foreign experts card is a great keepsake. Not only that but I would be fined 500rmb for the 11 months that I did not register with the PSB. I went into shock a good place to be, I felt calm, asked them them what should I do, reluctantly they told me I would have to go back to the school and have them arrange a green card for the last 11 months. I was in Shenzhen so I went to the taxi stand and waited for a taxi to take me to my son's house I was beseiged at the time with limbless young men with begging bowls I gave them all I had which was bloody little and a carton of cigarettes that someone had asked me to take across the border. Well that encounter put things into perspective for me, I have all my limbs and a way out.
So I went back to Hubei, went to my school and said you didn't issue me with the green card. Yes we did, you lost it. No, I didn't, I never had it.
But Mr Xin took me to the police station and he got one of his former students who was now the director of police to go to the next town to get my green card. It was going to cost me 3000rmb, the policewoman haggled them down to 1000rmb, what a women.
Now I love my first school and this experience never soured me. It was my ignorance and their lack of experience. I have been back a couple of times for a visit.
Be very careful, this school cannot issue you with a Z visa it's obvious.

I will never work in China unless I have Z visa Summer camps are not a problem but full time no.
Don't take any notice of the fat nazi, heartburn again, I suspect for overeating Good luck

[arioch36]

If you where here in Henan, I would say go straight to Zhengzhou, to the Zhengzhou PSB. They aren't there to screw the foreigner, but have been very helpful. Say I am sorry, I thought everything was legal, what should I do, and htey will help (at least here in Henan) They will also tell you if the school is legal.


Next option, go to a school that is legal to hire you. Get them to take care of your problems.

Sometimes, I hate to do it, but I say, I am not teaching another day until you do .....

If you are teaching there, I am guessing you are teaching classes? They need you? This very real threat, unfortunately, has worked for me the two times I have used it.

You do still have your passport?

[Stosskraft]

Yes, I do have my passport now. I am in negotiations with another school in a different province but the job is not until the end of June. I am going to send them an email and ask if they can rectify this problem for me,once I arrive. I think talking to the school is going to be useless. I am already battling them about some of my contract promises and they don't seem to be interested in fulfilling their promises.
I have been teaching class for 6 weeks, and I had to use the ", I am not teaching another day until you do ..... " just to get my passport back.

Suggestions?? ?is it worth going to the authorities??

[arioch36]

Is your f visa still good? Until when?

Ask the people here where the nearest PSB is in your province.

If you have the money, just go to the city where you are talking to the school with (bad english) and hang out.

Tell the school, here, look, here is the deal ..I had to fight to get my passport, and I am not going to fight about money. Pay me, and I will teach the rest of the period. Otherwise I won't be teaching Monday is one way. Unfortunate to have to resort to it. After you leave, let us know what schol.

Good luck

[Roger]

It seems to me, Stosskraft, your best bet is to quit as soon as possible, better right after next pay day rather than later.
Your business visa does not come with any permit; therefore changing it to a work visa should not be insuperable. It would be advisable, though, to refrain from mentioning your current employment - if you can avoid that now that you have contacted that new school...
If you mention it, they would have to require you to come up with a release letter stamped by the local PSB, which in your case would be somewehat contradictory. Better avoid this!
You can have been in China on any business. Once they swallow this, they can sponsor you - if they have been given the green light by the local authorities!