Job Discussion Forums

usool · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 147

Hi there

Does anybody have any contact details for the guy responsible for recruitment at Umm al Qura Uni in Mecca?

Do they have an EFL dept?

Regards and best wishes

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

If you want to win friends and influence people in the KSA better spell it Makkah.

There is such a university - Muslims only !

Have you done a google search ?

usool · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 147

Dear Scott

Yeah I have and I have visited their website but it wasnt much use. I need an email address of someone down there.

Regards

Muhammad

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

"Umm Al-Qura", it should be pointed out is "The Mother of Villages", a circumlocution for Holy Mecca, or Makkah as the Godly in KSA spell it.

The city is closed to non-Muslims and it follows that teaching jobs there are not open to us.

The OP has the option of making the pilgrimage to Mecca and knocking on doors during his visit. My suspicion is that it will not be easy to get a job there. Why not settle for a more mundane job in one of the more everyday locations in KSA ?

usool · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 147

Dear Scott

In Islaam a person who prays in the main mosque in Mecca gets 100,000 times the reward for praying in a normal mosque elsewhere. As a Muslim it makes sense to try and get a job there and pump up the bank balance in good deeds Cool

Regards

Muhammad

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

It does have an English Department> we've had applications from teachers there.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Many employers in Saudi Arabia are flooded with applications from poorly-qualified or unsuitable candidates whose sole motive in seeking work here is to come and live in the land of the Two Holy Mosques.

Institutions here are rightly suspicious of those whose experience as classroom EFL teachers is negligible. Let me hasten to add that I am not suggesting that the original poster is in that category, but he should understand why employers are a bit wary of those who may have only one interest in coming here. But if your work history is as an accountant or administrator what makes you think you are ideally suited to teach EFL ?

usool · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 147

Dear Scott

I find your posting to border on the openly racist but I am not surprised. Indeed for Muslims a desire to move to the Middle East or to the land of the two holy Mosques may indeed be a motivation but then lets be frank and clear, how many westerners come to Saudi just for the money. If you are suggesting that the latter motivation is somehow more proffesional and noble than the former than the charge of racism must stick.

Perhaps you are unaware (maybe you did a mickey mouse MA distance learning or their ilk) but many people enter the EFL field not having at undergraduate level the intention to do so. The fact that one decides to study for an MA is sufficient evidence of ones desire to engage oneself in the EFL field.

Let me make this clear. I am sure that theoretically speaking, its better for a Muslim to teach in Saudi who values his students and they him rather than a racist who hates them and they him.

Regards and best wishes

Muhammad

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

usool

Do you then subscribe to the theory that for KSA a muslim teacher is in all circumstances preferable to a non-muslim ?

usool · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 147

Dear Scott,

I am at this moment in the process of some some research investigating the teaching of English to Muslim students with specific reference to the Arab world and motivational issues.

There is plenty of research that deals with motivation and Muslims, specifically with issues of cultura and English. You may (or may not) be aware if Pennycooks various articles which touch upon these issues.

Certainly at this time I believe that a teachers who respects Islams and has respect for Muslims (whatever persuasion they may be) is ALWAYS preferable to money grabbing Arab haters who travel to Saudi with preconceived ideas and exist in a superiority paradox where they, along with their friends Bush et al, believe their culture to be superior to Islaam's despite the fact that they are moral relativists with no claimed access to absolute truth!

Regards and best wishes

Muhammad

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

"Arab haters" do not last long in any job in KSA. You seem to have a strange idea of what actually goes on in the world of EFL in Saudi Arabia.

Most of the non-Muslim teachers I have met here are culturally sensitive and do a good job in a difficult environment.

johnslat · Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:09 pm Post subject: Absolutely

Dear usool,

usool · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 147

Dear John

You said

because he certainly seems to have a "claimed accss to absolute truth" in much of what he spouts.

I reply,

Thats true when he quotes direct from the bible and at those times he's outside the paradox but the bible (particularly the New Testament) is quite thin on the issue of law so in those matters the paradox still exists. Take for example the noun "terrorism", whatever definition you give it a claim that it is wrong can only ever be relative if you dont claim access to objecivity, hence to claim its wrong is meaningless. This was pointed out to Tony Blair when on a visit to Syria after 9/11 he denounced terrorism only for Basshar Assad to tell him that ones mans terrorism is another mans fight for freedom. Although I'm no great fan of Mr Asad he did highlight the relatavist dilema. In reality, relatavists can not rationally claim any morality because in a relative right and wrong are equal with no external judge.

Regards and best wishes

Muhammad

johnslat · Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:57 pm Post subject: A Theory of Relativity

Dear usool,
I'm having trouble understanding what you mean here. I mean, in my opinion, Bush IS an "absolutist" in that he sees things in terms of "black and white", "for us or against us", "good guys and evildoers". And, from what I've read, I'd say Bush believes that God is on his side.
But what would you say about "terrorism"? In the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, for example, do you think only one side is guilty of terrorism, or are both sides engaging in it?
Regards,
John

usool · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 147

Hi John

The point I was making was an abstract one. In terms of absolutism then most people can be considered absolutist in the sense that you are talking about. I mean take 9/11 as an example. Most people will say that that was wrong 100%, no arguments about it. Thats an absolutist position. The're unwilling to except that it could be considered good. Herein lies the paradox and my point. To say 9/11 was wrong you first need a definition of wrong and most people have a fudged one like what the majority of people say or believe etc Like the majority of people believe 9/11 was wrong and hence it is. The problem with this is that who's to say that is the correct defition? Unless you can point to an external factor, and make it objective, then one is simply expressing an opinion. If bin Ladin believes 9/11 was right how can we evaluate these two positions. In a relativist world you cant. The reality is that the secular west, if they wish to be consistent in their argument, they should say 'we believe its wrong but we accept that bin Ladin's opinion is equally as valid as ours'. Yet they don't. Because of this they are in a paradox, on the one hand rejecting any source of objectivity and yet at the same time expressing absolute opinions.

I dont see any difference between the positions of Bush, Sharron or Joe Public in that they are all absolutist in expression but relatavist in belief. Its one of the many rational contradictions that the secular west is in.

Regards and best wishes

Muhammad