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torentosan
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 54
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 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: New Full Time Salary Offers |
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When I was in Japan a few years ago, 250,000 was the standard offer..and I found it a little difficult to live on that (and save). BUT...Now.. the offers are beginning at 220,000 in some instances...
What is going on? Who can live on that amount in Japan? Have things gotten cheaper in Japan?... |
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marley'sghost
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:35 am Post subject: Re: New Full Time Salary Offers |
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| torentosan wrote: |
When I was in Japan a few years ago, 250,000 was the standard offer..and I found it a little difficult to live on that (and save). BUT...Now.. the offers are beginning at 220,000 in some instances...
What is going on? Who can live on that amount in Japan? Have things gotten cheaper in Japan?... |
On the contrary, things are getting more expensive. And to top it off, the Japanese government has just started a new monentary policy with the express purpose of causing inflation actually. Here is a big thank you from all of us who have to buy our own groceries Mr. Abe.
Wages are down for for lots of reasons. Supply and demand sums it all up pretty well. You thinking of coming back? |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:15 am Post subject: Re: New Full Time Salary Offers |
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| torentosan wrote: |
When I was in Japan a few years ago, 250,000 was the standard offer..and I found it a little difficult to live on that (and save). BUT...Now.. the offers are beginning at 220,000 in some instances...
What is going on? Who can live on that amount in Japan? Have things gotten cheaper in Japan?... |
What's going on is that there are just more foreign people wanting to teach in Japan. The result is that as long as there are people who are wiling to take the low offers, the employers will keep offering less and less. The solution would be for people to just not take those jobs, but the reality is that there are people who are desperate enough, and employers who care more about money than quality. I've heard of salaries as low as 180,000. |
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Mr. Leafy
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Location: North of the Wall
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:26 am Post subject: |
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I've been wondering about this too. I'm not planning to go back for at least two or three years, if ever, but I look at ads every once in a while.
Years ago almost all entry-level jobs paid 250,000 and it was said that 250,000 was the minimum needed to get the work visa. That's why that was the standard minimum. Has that rule changed, or was it never true? If it is still true, how are employers getting visas for people?
I won't be looking at those jobs myself, but wondering how it works. The whole situation is discouraging for a return. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. Leafy wrote: |
| Years ago almost all entry-level jobs paid 250,000 and it was said that 250,000 was the minimum needed to get the work visa. That's why that was the standard minimum. Has that rule changed, or was it never true? If it is still true, how are employers getting visas for people? |
I also remember hearing that when I first went to Japan almost 15 years ago. I think 250,000 used to be a guideline that immigration used for 'skilled labor' visas (e.g., specialist in humanities), but I don't think there was ever an actual law about it (or, if there was, it doesn't exist anymore).
Kind of sad that the typical salary has gone down over the last 15 years, but the prices of things continues to go up. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
| Kind of sad that the typical salary has gone down over the last 15 years, but the prices of things continues to go up. |
In fact, Abenomics aside, prices have been tended downwards ever since the bubble burst. But not as much as English teacher's salaries have dropped.
I think English teacher wages have dropped because of a rise in the supply of new teachers. Countries like the US and the UK are currently experiencing high levels of unemployment among young graduates. From discussion with recruiters in the UK, I gathered they no longer need to go out and look for recruits, and they can afford to be much fussier over who they hire than they used to be. |
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marley'sghost
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| rtm wrote: |
| Kind of sad that the typical salary has gone down over the last 15 years, but the prices of things continues to go up. |
In fact, Abenomics aside, prices have been tended downwards ever since the bubble burst. But not as much as English teacher's salaries have dropped.
I think English teacher wages have dropped because of a rise in the supply of new teachers. Countries like the US and the UK are currently experiencing high levels of unemployment among young graduates. From discussion with recruiters in the UK, I gathered they no longer need to go out and look for recruits, and they can afford to be much fussier over who they hire than they used to be. |
I'm no economist, I gauge prices by by how loudly and often my wife complains about how much vegetables cost. Which is pretty often these days.
On top of the diaspora of freshly graduated unemployables seeking to escape their college debt, there are the dispatch companies in a frenzy of competition driving the wages down too. Cities are broke, and BOEs are looking for any and all ways to cut costs. The best ALT is the cheapest as far as the bean counters at City Hall are concerned. The companies slit each other's throats to underbid each other. The winner , in turn slits their employees' throats to make a profit. And finally, everyone wonders why they can't get any of these useless gaijin to stay through the school year before jumping ship.
Lots of warm bodies competing for a shrinking pie. But that's the world over though isn't it? Times are tough. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| marley'sghost wrote: |
Cities are broke, and BOEs are looking for any and all ways to cut costs. The best ALT is the cheapest as far as the bean counters at City Hall are concerned. The companies slit each other's throats to underbid each other. The winner, in turn slits their employees' throats to make a profit. And finally, everyone wonders why they can't get any of these useless gaijin to stay through the school year before jumping ship.
Lots of warm bodies competing for a shrinking pie. But that's the world over though isn't it? Times are tough. |
Yup. That's deflation.
Japan uses protectionist import tariffs to separate its market for locally growable foodstuffs from the world economy. This makes fruit and vegetable prices higher, and much more volatile, than other countries. But, over the years, that factor averages out. It hurts the cost of living, but it doesn't factor into long-term inflation. In other words, you're using the wrong inflation gauge. |
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qwertyu2
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't check entry-level salaries very often, but the lowest I've seen in recent years offered 170,000/mo. for basically full-time work.
Unless one has a burning desire to live in Japan, I don't really see the sense in working for that little. Especially considering the cost of living here, which is only going to increase. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| qwertyu2 wrote: |
I don't check entry-level salaries very often, but the lowest I've seen in recent years offered 170,000/mo. for basically full-time work.
Unless one has a burning desire to live in Japan, I don't really see the sense in working for that little. Especially considering the cost of living here, which is only going to increase. |
There are nearly a thousand Filipino EFL teachers in Japan earning about that ~￥180,000 a month and making it work.That's bad news for those of us who are used to ￥300,000 - ￥400,000 a month. The Filipinos will accept those jobs for 1/2 the salary at BoEs and the BoEs know that. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah I saw that at Interac. Tons of Filipinos. They accept lower wages and the Japanese aren't serious about English, so why pay full price for a product's quality that you don't care about? |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Yeah I saw that at Interac. Tons of Filipinos. They accept lower wages and the Japanese aren't serious about English, so why pay full price for a product's quality that you don't care about? |
A qualified, competent, native speaking ALT is overkill for Junior High School level. At least, that's what the numbers my payslip tell me.... |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Yeah I saw that at Interac. Tons of Filipinos. They accept lower wages and the Japanese aren't serious about English, so why pay full price for a product's quality that you don't care about? |
A qualified, competent, native speaking ALT is overkill for Junior High School level. At least, that's what the numbers my payslip tell me.... |
oh yeah, they don't want them either. Makes the Japanese teacher look bad too. But really with how bad their grammer and pronunciation is anyhow, why overpay for a native English speaker? When an ESL speaker is much cheaper. I talked to the Filipinos at interact, they all make under 18 a month. Which sets a terrible precedent for us |
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qwertyu2
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Yeah I saw that at Interac. Tons of Filipinos. They accept lower wages and the Japanese aren't serious about English, so why pay full price for a product's quality that you don't care about? |
A qualified, competent, native speaking ALT is overkill for Junior High School level. At least, that's what the numbers my payslip tell me.... |
oh yeah, they don't want them either. Makes the Japanese teacher look bad too. But really with how bad their grammer and pronunciation is anyhow, why overpay for a native English speaker? When an ESL speaker is much cheaper. I talked to the Filipinos at interact, they all make under 18 a month. Which sets a terrible precedent for us |
I agree that a qualified native speaker at 300,000/mo. is overkill for Japanese junior high schools. When I was an ALT back in the day, I worked with roughly 20 different Japanese teachers. Maybe 3 were competent enough to carry their side of a simple conversation in English. Some were so bad their students would have been better off not going to class at all: From the morning greeting on the teachers were proactively teaching them wrong before the students even had a chance to mess up on their own.
How is a native speaker dropping in for an hour a week going to undo those mistakes compounded daily? They're not. And that's assuming the students want to learn, which they don't, because not only is there a culture of "crap English is acceptable" but most of the Japanese instructors couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag and the students know it. After about the 20th time the teacher spends a half hour of class time outlining some Rube Goldberg inspired blackboard diagram to explain a simple grammar point, even those students who had some interest in the subject understandably give up.
The more I think about it, the more I think Filipino ALTs at 170,000/mo. is probably overkill, too.
Last edited by qwertyu2 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, despite the apologists, English in Japan is a joke. The government might as well burn a pile of money every year, for how much they get out of JTs and ALTs.
I too taught with various JTEs, and some had some pretty good English(not fluent) while others, well it was kinda sad how bad their English was.
It is just a spiral of failure and poor teaching techniques coupled with people who don't understand English. It continually feeds upon it's self. Saddest thing I heard, was I was teaching a 3rd grade class, and I had 'inspired one of the kids to want to be an English teacher'. Broke my heart there.
i think if they stopped teaching English altogether, and just let people who wanted to learn, hit juku, or go to a private school/magnet school, Japan would be better off, and wouldn't be wasting massive amounts of money on a black hole |
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