Job Discussion Forums

Chronos · Joined: 27 May 2013 Posts: 17

Hello everybody. New guy here and wanted some advice. I have been reading this board and others and decided to make a career change by joining you folks teaching abroad. I like China and have visited there so I thought I would look for work there. I have had several offers and one offer that I am looking at is offered by "China International Teacher Association". Theyr emails come from "Serious Teachers". Anyone know that group? Now, I dont know which school it would be at since they havent told me yet, and they havent shared any pics with me of the campus or living accommodations. They say that they are still getting details from the school, but its their name on the contact not that of the school. Wondering if this is normal and if any of you have had any experience with this group? Are they legit? What are normal signs to watch out for? Should I have a contract with the school directly? Thanks....

zactherat · Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Posts: 295

You are not applying directly to a school, you are applying through a recruiter. Personally I would never use a recruiter, but each to their own.

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

I don't know, or know of, that organization, but clearly it's a middleman type of company. Yes, we usually advise teachers to try to contact schools directly (often takes minor research skills) but some have expressed some satisfaction with agencies. Most of us will want to know what your qualifications are (degree? experience? other?) before commenting beyond "don't use agencies!" or whatnot. With low or non-existent quals, for example, it might be useful to use an agency. Of course you could be sent into a nightmare job situation with little recourse, but an agency could make it easier for you to find that nightmare situation. Wink

So, what are your qualifications?

Chronos · Joined: 27 May 2013 Posts: 17

mw182006 · Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Posts: 310

Take this with a grain of salt as I'm hoping Sept 2013 will be my first term in China. No it is not bad...I'm searching on my own and also using a couple different agencies. They reduce the leg work for me while I continue to grind away at my full time job. Just realize they're only a middleman and can cause communication issues (and feed you BS). Example: Recruiter set up an interview for me the other night but the school didn't call. I told the recruiter I'd be available the same time the following day but never got a response to my email. Sure enough, the next evening I missed a call from the school and had to reschedule again. When they finally responded to my email they said they thought the school was going to confirm the appointment with me. Simple miscommunication but time is at a premium right now with the semester winding down.

GreatApe · Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:27 am Post subject:

Take the western idea of a "Teacher's Association / Union" and cross it with a corrupt recruiting agency and, from what I've been able to gather on the 'net, CITA would be located somewhere in the middle.

I wouldn't necessarily rule out using them to some degree; on the other hand, I wouldn't trust them too much either.

--GA

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

OP, as I said, I don't know about that particular outfit, but you may as well have agencies looking for jobs for you (don't sign anything until you are ready). Your teaching experience is not nothing and puts you ahead of other career changers imho. But teaching anything that assumes communication is different than teaching how to communicate. I think many schools will be hesitant or outright unwilling to hire you until you have English teaching experience. But other schools will no doubt be attracted. Look on your own and use agencies too. Post any questions that haven't been asked a bazillion times, or make it a bazillion and one. Ask before you sign. Good luck.

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

Chronos · Joined: 27 May 2013 Posts: 17

Hey, thanks for all the great help everybody.

OK, so I decided to ask questions and start digging a bit deeper with these recruiters. The minute you start asking questions then things get shacky. They are good at making promises that's for sure. I spoke to a couple of different recruiters from two different organizations, for two different positions. They are both located in BJ but they contract throughout China they say. They have the contracts made out with their company names not the school. They claim that they will take care of everything for you. Then I started asking about the local registration and health check, etc. Oh, well, the school will take care of that. So they will unload me onto the school and only get in the middle when its convenient. Didn't really like that.

Then I start asking about the Z visa process. One of them said that I could either get it here in the USA or go to China on an L visa and get the Z visa later when I am on the ground. She wanted me to do a HK run. I told her that I heard this was not possible any more. She said that yes, there have been changes, but its still workable in HK.

The other recruiter first in the email answering my questions said that they would apply for the Z via for me and that they are registered with the Education system, blah, blah, blah. Then when I started Skyping and asked directly again, about the Z visa, she tell me that I would have to go to China first on an L visa and later they would change it to a Z visa. I have read enough posts here to know not to fall for that. So it looks like these positions are not legit.

I guess I will have to look for a school directly to deal with. I have one university that I have been on contact with and that seems to be the best bet right now. They only pay about 6500rmb, provide a single apartment on campus, but do not provide free meals. So I will have to buy food everyday. They pay electricity and water, but dont pay for gas or internet. Seems odd to me if its an on campus flat. How would I set up a gas account and a phone account for a flat if it is on campus? Any thoughts?

They sent me pictures of the grounds, but said that the flat is being remodeled right now so they had no pics. I wonder if its so bad that they dont want to show me? You guys that work at universities can tell me better what to watch for with this situation. Are they more legit or still trouble?

Thanks for the great help guys, keep the ideas coming I really appreciate it.

Javelin of Radiance · Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 1187 Location: The West

juanjose · Joined: 26 Apr 2013 Posts: 14 Location: china

Skip the recruiters and deal with the schools directly. Recruiters are not the most honest bunch in the world.
When you decide that a school might be a good fit, try to get the e-mails of a few foreign teachers there. They will tell you more about the school, in an honest way I hope.
Just keep looking on-line for job leads like Dave's cafe or e-chinacities.com.
You might ask some teachers here to give you the names of schools they have worked at that they know will treat you fairly.
I myself am a USC graduate, and welcome to China. If you need some more leads you can contact me through a p.m. Good luck.

Guerciotti · Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:05 am Post subject:

OP, you're new to this but you can do better than the type of recruiter who signs a contract with you and then rents you to whoever bids the most. It looks like that's your current potential arrangement. Oh by the way, they rent you to the highest bidder, but you don't get any extra dosh; the recruiter keeps it.

Other recruiters introduce you to a school and your contract is with that school. In my opinion this is much better than the above arrangement.

Better yet: direct negotiation and contract with a school, though I have found this hard to find. Others swear by it and I'm not here to argue against it. I simply say the recruiter/contract with a certain school ain't bad, and it's much better than a contract with a recruiter.

I think you are much better off with at least a recruiter who introduces you to a specific school, and you sign a contract with that school.

The sad stories of people working on recruiter contracts are legion. You have a degree and relevant experience, you need not settle for that option.
Leave that to the high school graduate adventurers.
Cool

lemak · Joined: 19 Nov 2011 Posts: 368

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Go with the 6500 job, but get cracking as they may have others in line and the semester is winding down.
If you add 8-10K of airfare, less than 20 hours contact pw and paid winter vacation, you have about as good as you'll get as a first timer gig.
The apartment will be a mess very like - refurbished or not.
I repeat you do not have time on your side.
As these guys are still in the market it could be other applicants have turned them down for whatever reason. Email access to other FTs would clear away any remaining issues but there may not be time for that.