Job Discussion Forums

[Abroadbroad]

There are two CELTA courses and other generic TESOL courses starting in June near me. I'm not looking to teach a specific age group. However, I do want to make myself as attractive to employers as possible and be well-prepared to fill any position that doesn't require an education degree.

Since the TA in CELTA stands for "Teaching Adults", would I be lost teaching children? Does anyone have experience teaching children with a CELTA? Or would I be better off with a generic TESOL that addresses the learning needs and styles of children? Do employers look more at the prestige of the CELTA or at the fact that it's meant to teach adults?

I need to make a decision within the next two weeks, so your prompt help will be much appreciated.

[santi84]

CELTA + an extension of some kind (TEYL - Teaching English to Young Learners) would be a decent entry-level option.

There isn't really anything good out there for teaching EFL to children. It's sort of "all or nothing" (nothing or the BEd).

In practical experience, I found that early childhood education (generic) manuals were easy to adapt to young learners. There is *some* value in the basic adult courses, but not a lot.

[spiral78]

I also don't know of any generic that specifically addresses teaching children to any really adequate degree.

[sparks]

I think you should already know if you can teach kids. Of course you have to know the methodology and theory and whatnot, but I think that if you like being around children, you will be o.k. with teaching them English, at least not much worse than most other TEFLers who do it. Most haven't a clue and still get away with it. I can't stand the buggers, don't feel very confident in the class with them and still got away with teaching them for years. Honestly, if you don't particularly like kids, you can pretty much count on a year of awful, gut-wrenching stress and bad-feelings. I'd get my feet wet with adults first, then slowly try a kids class or two before diving in. They're completely different than adult esl classes where you can count on your students to not try to punch and stab each other or run away (well, usually for the last one in the middle of a lesson.

[fluffyhamster]

My previous thoughts on YL training:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=94888
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=690272#690272

There used to be a CELTYL, that was an actual UCLES cert and as long as the CELTA, but it was withdrawn by UCLES in 2011 (I guess most trainees~teachers prefer to teach adults than children, regardless of the way markets are heading). All that remains is the YL extension to the CELTA, but a quick search of Cambridge's site produces very scant details and shows there is only one training center in e.g. England now offering it! So you may have no option but to do the CELTA, and then find it difficult to add the YL extension (assuming money is no object) to your bow. And here's a thought: maybe UCLES got rid of the CELTYL in order to maximize their profits (that is, why have people walk away with one or other full cert when they could be forced to do only one adult-centered cert lacking in YL focus, and thus perhaps feel then somewhat compelled to take a week or two-long YL extension?).

I rather suspect that the YL extension will be lacking in serious and truly useful content e.g. a thorough grounding in phonics. That is, if it is all yet more generalized tips and common-sense advice, you can work that out for yourself (albeit with a bit of trial and error). I just know that I was teaching pretty sound lessons to elementary-school kids in Japan, once I'd knuckled down to the prospect of specializing in ES AET work rather than JHS. (Aside from the sublink in/from one of the above links, that leads to my 'Best type of teaching for a newbie?' thread, which details my ES syllabus and activities, perhaps also try searching for my 'Alphabet related to kana' thread).

[tttompatz]

If you understand why Barney and Sesame Street work then you understand why a CELTA doesn't work (beyond doing lesson planning) in a YL setting.

If you don't then stick to big kids or adults.

A 3 year old is NOT 1/2 of a 6 year old is NOT 1/2 of a 12 year old is NOT 1/2 of a 24 year old.

Beyond that, at young to very young ages they are not learning "EFL/ESL" they are simply "learning language" through natural acquisition (their linguistic skills are not well developed in any language yet).

Grammar is the old lady who lives across town (ie: your mother's mother).

.

[fluffyhamster]

Yes, there isn't much point in trying to actually teach kids much before say the third year of elementary school. With real toddlers, immersion and "Happy Happy Joy Joy" is about the only sensible option.

[coledavis]

Teaching kids with a CELTA, eh. Ok, this is what you do. Wrap it up, preferably with your other qualifications as outer layers, plastic laminates in particular. Then as the child says 'My brother do like potatoes', you whack it round their head, gently murmuring 'My brother does like potatoes'.

[sicklyman]

I may be one of the few that actually has the CELTYL. I didn't value it much. I did it because my employers offered it for free and it got me teaching hours down. I'd been teaching kids for many years by the time I did it and it didn't really teach me anything new. It might have been more useful for entry level YL teachers.

THe biggest issue with teaching children is that there are vastly more scenarios you are going to face with them than with adults where courses are often standardised by recognised levels with specific books/materials addressing those.

I think the most valuable thing your CELTA gives you with is an understanding of lesson structure and classroom management. I taught YL's for over a decade and I can tell you right now that whatever the level or age of kids, the two most important things you have to get right are classroom routines and behavioural boundaries. If you nail them, everything else falls into place.

[Chancellor]

My TESOL certificate is for adults, but I also have state teacher certification in ESL (as well as early childhood through 8th grade, meaning preschool through middle school). My youngest student is 10 (I have him as an individual student), many of my students are teenagers, and the rest are adults in their 20s and 30s. Teaching the 10 year-old is definitely not the same as teaching the teens and adults.

[sprightly]

i have a celta and have taught kids.
aside from lesson planning and getting comfortable with games, the celta doesn't help a lot withkids. i think my centre tried to havea couple of lessons where we looked at differences between kids and adults.

when i did teach young kids at an after school place, i read the teacher's manual from cover to cover. i sang all the songs. i played all the games. i did whatever it took to keep those kids happy for 50 minutes and send them home with something in their workbook to prove they'd 'learned english.'

i'm currently teaching english reading skills (phonics) to 4 and 5 yr olds in an english-medium school. this is a bit tricky as for most of them english is a second/third language and they are not literate in their own language.

before starting this job, i spent a lot of time reading up on phonics systems and early childhood intellectual development.
i've signed up to the Times Education Supplement website and read the forums, download the resources. i'd be dead otherwise.

i suspect part of the problem in certifications is that a lot of english teaching to small children is in 'not real schools' that are just making money off the english fad, whereas a lot of people who end up teaching esl children in 'proper' schools are only hired if they have a B Ed, and many of those will have a minor in ESL or a similar qual.