Job Discussion Forums

[vabeckele]

It is of my opinion demo lessons of over 20 minutes should be paid. Let us assume everyone has at least a B.A.. and a year's experience.

[RustyShackleford]

Of course not. Hearing how people, teachers AND students alike, get jerked around to do free work for the company, it's unfair and unethical. A quick 10-20 demo to showcase a teacher's character? Sure, awesome. Anything more than that and you're just taking advantage.

[ExpatLuke]

Demo lessons are supposed to be a demonstration of a full lesson. As the name suggests, they are something that are not generally paid for, but they should not be a full lesson either.

My normal classes are an hour and half long, and my longer classes are 3 hours long. I would think 30 minutes is a sufficient amount of time to demonstrate my ability to plan a thought out lesson with meaningful activities. Any more than that and you're basically being asked to teach a full lesson for free which isn't what a demo lesson is supposed to be.

[skarper]

No. 100% not.

They will ask and some will be desperate enough to accept but I don't think I would any more.

Demo lessons are a poor way of accessing a teacher's work - since they are a one off. They could be much worse than usual or much better. A common technique to dispose of observed classes when working on a short term contract in a BC recognized UK school was to have a self contained lesson ready to pull out of the hat. Same goes for a demo lesson. We all have one or two good lessons ready for emergencies that can stand alone.

It's a lazy sloppy and almost pointless step in the rigmarole of getting an EFL job that is I think becoming more common. But it's not like they're guaranteeing jobs for life or anything.

We should say, "No thanks. You've seen my resume, ask your questions and if you'd like to see me teach pay for me to cover a few lessons."

I did a free 90 minute demo once [In Japan] and would not do so again. One of the reasons I am in Vietnam is that jobs are in reasonable supply and if you are qualified/experienced you can usually find work in a few weeks at most.

I tend to think demo lessons are just a scam that schools use to get an hour or two of free work. If you're interviewing half a dozen teachers a week and ask each one to demo a 90 minute lesson for free you basically have up to half a teacher working for free.

It's crooked. If they're crooked before you work for them - they'll be more crooked later. Red flag.

[vabeckele]

[cb400]

I am going against the grain on this one. I hire teachers and they are required to give a demo lesson, not full length but at least 30-40 minutes. We do provide all the material needed for the plan and go over the lesson plan with the prospective teacher beforehand (for experienced teachers).

I've seen too many CV's not match up to what some people can actually do in the classroom. And considering most of our students are children I really need to see the interaction before they can take classes alone. Too much BS on both sides out there (schools and teachers) no to check.

For newbies, I rather train them and have them observe several classes before going it alone, though we do pay for training but not the demos.

[skarper]

To clarify - At some point there has to be some payback for the free work.

Either you pay them to teach a few classes or if you are one of the very few serious schools out there that make it worth the hoop jumping in the contract offered.

What we have degenerated into is a situation where many places demand the commitment, dedication and skills of a genuine professional but pay peanuts, offer no benefits and often renege on premisses.

My 100% no way should carry a footnote that it is for a typical Vietnam school and not a serious international school or one of the top tier - maybe British Council are alone in being serious enough to really justify a proper application process. RMIT, ELI in Danang too probly. Not sure about ACET - pretty iffy from what I saw during my brief stint. ILA/APOLLO are just mills. ILA looks more professional but what little I've heard does not really impress.

If I wanted to work at one of these places (and I don't) then I might be willing to do a short 20-30 minute demo lesson for a full time gig at an ILA/APOLLO and I probably would at the BC or RMIT/ELI.

Other places no chance.

[Tigerstyleone]

[vabeckele]

[cb400]

[vabeckele]

I just got asked, by a Viet language centre to do a demo lesson, for an hour, to a member of HR and an academic director for free (so, to two members of staff).

How do you 'teach' to two members of staff with no students?

I do not understand this. Can anyone enlighten me?

[Tigerstyleone]

What if the hiring manager was a foreigner and didn't even have a university degree? What if he only had a few years of teaching experience in China, a TESOL and a Cambridge Certificate. Would you still do the demo?

[cb400]

[vabeckele]

Tiger,

When you put it like that it begins to make more sense and strengthens my resolve.

cb400,

Although I agree qualifications can me diddle when it comes to actual performance, in this instance I would claim the lack of qualification and common sense put together makes for a problem.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I would think a simulated lesson put to a couple of disinterested staff would lack the dynamics of an ordinary lesson, thus making it quite difficult for a teacher to create an atmosphere of learning - AND - on top of this it would be for free. I think it just a waste of time, not only for the teacher, but more importantly, for the school.

=HIC=

[ExpatLuke]

Im finding myself agreeing with cb on almost everything. Qualifications have nothing to do with whoever is hiring you. Its their school and they can run the interview any way they like. Your pride is the only issue here.

And anyone who has done TESOL training should know how to give mock lessons to native speaking staff. I did these dozens of times during my degree courses. And its a big part of the CELTA too.