Job Discussion Forums

Garphilius · Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 10

So, I am now in a situation where I already signed a contract for a school but it has taken already 3 weeks and my employer has not obtained the work permit yet. My employer however does reply pretty quick to my e-mails and says "Everything is going good and it takes a bit of time to get."

Now, I just got another job offer in Beijing and they have sent me the contract. The work is the same, teaching Calculus at a public high school but the pay is $1,200 more. Everything is identical to the other job that I have already signed the contract with (i.e. flights payed for, housing is paid by school, vacation time is the same, etc.)

The employer in Beijing has stated that it will easily take them 1 week to obtain the work permit for my Z visa ( I assume this school has connections with the Bureau in Beijing or what not to be that assertive that it is easy to get the work permit as the employer seemed very relaxed that the permit will be obtained in the skype interview.)

The question is...can I tell my employer that if in another week I don't get it that I have found another job?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

GeminiTiger · Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:32 am Post subject:

If you signed the real contract in person and not via scan and email it's legally and ethically binding in my opinion.

At the time you sign the real contract your employer has began a process that involves cash and resources to get things done to get you legit.

You will also be liable for breach of contract. That information is in your contract.

Plus at this point it would be just a douche move to pull.

Those people want to get to summer holiday and not have to find a last minute replacement, etc.

Just think if everyone signed contracts in July and kept looking for jobs until September 1st what kind of circus this whole system would be.

That's just my opinion.

Big Worm · Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 171

I don't understand peoples thinking sometimes. Sign a contract in person, its "ethically binding". Scan it, it doesn't count. OK, whatever.People change jobs, employers pull plugs on people all the time. Just a part of life, get used to it.

If the first employer has already submitted your passport, you're hosed. You won't be able to get it back until the process is done. You can change jobs once you are legal in your first one, but it requires your first employer to give you a letter of release.

Also, it takes three weeks to get RPs processed in Beijing now, not one.

Good luck.

GeminiTiger · Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:51 am Post subject:

Let me clarify this, Basically you can forget about the "ethical" aspect. Once the school puts money into you it's because they have established a relationship between you, the school and the PSB. At that point your stuck. In the case of teachers in country that happens usually when you sign the contract in person and for teachers out of country that happens when they apply for your invitation letter and I believe that can be done via a scanned signed contract.

muffintop · Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803

Stick with the first job imo. You already signed the contract and the other job is pulling your leg about the time to get the visa done. If you sign on at the new job you'll be in the same position you are now....waiting 3 or more weeks for the visa.

I don't know about the legalities here but I do know it would be a pretty crappy move on your part to walk from the first school at this point.

dean_a_jones · Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 1151 Location: Wuhan, China

Are both jobs in Beijing? If so, and the first school has lodged an application for the right paperwork with your passport number etc. then trying to get another school to do the same thing will likely be a problem.

If the other job is not, then in theory you could accept the other offer and that school can apply for your paperwork instead (am guessing that once you are talking a different PSB/province there is not the problem above, have never heard of anyone who had this problem but things do change). But as others have mentioned the first school has likely already paid money to apply for this stuff. So if you pull out now they are out of pocket, and they also have to scramble for another teacher.

Most people would say the right thing to do is to stick with the first school, take it as a part of life that when you make a decision like this you need to go through with it. Others might disagree and say your only aim should be to get land the best job for you regardless of what impact doing so has on others (and tend to justify doing so by suggesting schools act in this way, which is often though not always true).

I fall into the former group, but ultimately you need to decide for yourself where to draw the line.

NoBillyNO · Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 1762

Contact the first employer and inform them you have a much better offer and ask them if they want to match it.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

If it were me, I'd stick with the first job. You could try to tell them you've found a better paying job and then ask their "advice" on what they think about it. You never know, they may say "go for it!" (Chinese folk are always trying to find better jobs with better conditions, at least this is what I gather from my conversations with friends and colleagues.)

But the more realistic scenario is they have already started all the processes and, from what you say, they are probably nearly done. It's just not in me to screw someone over this late in the game. But, $1200 a month more IS a big consideration so . . . to each their own.

muffintop · Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803

Garphilius · Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 10

GeminiTiger: I have NOT signed the real contract in person, only signed copy of contract and sent via e-mail. Also, as said in other posts, it is wise to keep looking for a job even if your employer says the working permit is in process and takes a while.

Big Worm: First employer does not have my passport, just a copy of my passport ( I am not even in China yet.)

Dean_a_jones: Original job is in Shanghai. I understand it would be a bad move on my part, but I am also trying to make sure I have a secured job, on time with good benefits for the amount of work I put in.

Kev7161 & Muffintop: Yes, the difference from first job to the new offer is $1300 USD (made a mistake not $1,200USD,) thus from 13,000RMB to 21,000RMB. The job is the exact same.

bestteacher2012 · Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 160

I highly doubt the school in Beijing can apply for the documents you need in one week. Also you should take into consideration that apparently in Beijing you need to provide a criminal background check before the school can even apply for the documents, that will add time.

tangal · Joined: 11 Nov 2012 Posts: 47 Location: Da Nang Beach

Bud Powell · Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736

"...but I am also trying to make sure I have a secured job, on time with good benefits for the amount of work I put in. "

What makes you believe that the first job won't meet its contracted obligations on time? What makes you think the second one will meet its obligations on time?

And what if you learn of a THIRD school that pays even more money?

Money has a way of changing people's scruples.

I've been through the visa and RP process enough times to know that things rarely happen overnight and that ultimatums just anger people.

"...Also, as said in other posts, it is wise to keep looking for a job even if your employer says the working permit is in process and takes a while. ..."

You're trying to rationalize your way out of your commitment. The process has begun.

Suck it up. You made a commitment, now live up to your word. Backing out creates problems not only for the employer but the OTHER FTs who expect x number of hours per week but must work more hours to compensate for the one who found slightly greener grass elsewhere.

Big Worm · Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 171

Dude, if you haven't given them your passport, you're all good. Faxing and scanning a contract is not binding. It's more like sending a "letter of intent". They can't even start the process until they have your docs (AFAIK), so they aren't out any money.

Send them an email telling them you have another offer of XXX per month. You are getting paid well below market price for a calculus teacher. I wouldn't be surprised if they up their offer. 21K is fair if you can REALLY teach AP/IB/A Level maths.

The "we can do it in one week" thing shows me they either don't have their act together or are *gasp* acting immorally to get you into the job. Don't worry, as someone else said, it's just business.

Don't listen to these moral crusaders. Chances are they have never been offered an extra 1200/mo. Think about it, that's 2/3 more than you would be making. You'll be kicking yourself all year if you take the first job. I know kindy teachers that make more than 13. You have a responsibility to yourself to get the best position you can and make the best life for yourself as possible.

Good luck.

chinatimes · Joined: 27 May 2012 Posts: 478

Last month I moved to a university, the teachers told me what a craphole it was, and that they were going to the university 1 station over.

Even when you move to the school, you need to get a residence permit. This is not the Western approach to getting a job. Morality games should be played AFTER you receive your residence permit. Eat that morality biters.

I am just being moral here. Wink

Think of yourself as a rabbit. They put a carrot on the stick. If you bite, you are trapped. Then they take your documents and say, "We captured a foreigner who will teach English for us". The PSB and Entry Exit Bureau will see there is a match and process the paperwork. Let the morality games commence after such Chinese rituals. :::trumpet sounds:::