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Questions before I decide to move

 
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redsneef



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Questions before I decide to move Reply with quote

Okay so here's the thing, lived in shanghai for 5 years working at international schools. Had my son there and had to move back to Canada because of some medical malpractice from OBGYN. However, been back in Canada for a year and am getting itchy feet. Want to make the move back to Asia but I am completely over China. Vietnam looks like just the right little jolt for my need for Asian lifestyle. Let's be honest folks, living in Asia you get some pretty awesome perks despite the so called hardship.

So here are a few questions I'd like answered before we decide to make the move.

1. While I can work at international schools I'm thinking that I'll just take on a supply role instead of a full time role. I know there are some great benefits to working full time but with my sons medical condition I think I want to be able to have more flexibility. As my husband can work mobile we would not have a work visa. How often does one have to leave on a tourist visa? Also, what about long term stay on tourist visa? By that I mean we would set hcmc as our home base and would like to for a while without having to be confined to full time work or my husband doing an investment or business visa.

2. As stated above, our son has a medical condition. Nothing serious, just requires weekly physio/occupational therapy and a surgical consult every couple of months. We would do the follow up consults either here in Montreal at the Shriners hospital or the one out of Philadelphia as that is who is currently holding his case. So what are the physio/occupational therapy costs like? In shanghai here as a pediatric western facility. Can I expect the same?or at least something with western practices?

3. Which brings us to insurance. Now if we don't have a work permit, are we able to get expat health insurance or because we will travel and work should I get the blue cross Travel insurance out of Canada that covers 190 days? I mean we will have to make trips back to Canada for medical reasons.

4. In shanghai, there are a few very active online communities. There was shanghai expat and shanghai mamas where one can get lots of family, living and work related questions answered. While Dave's eslcafe is a great stepping stone into various countries, I would like to know if there are any very active online communities I an also search answers out while researching more on this potential move back to Asia.

5. Anyone make the move from shanghai to hcmc? Would love to compare neighbourhood possibilities. We lived in the gubei/hongqiao area, and while it worked for us, this move to hcmc means we want a more centralized French concession/jiang temple feel. Hated to take taxi into area for restaurants or good street food. We just want to walk outside and not have to think about where to eat. So which district is similar to French concession or jiang temple area?

Cheers folks
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vabeckele



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello resdneef,

I cant' answer all of your questions but I'll give you my thoughts and impressions.

You will probably enter on a 3 month visa and that can be renewed once and then you will need to leave the country. It is possible to get a year's visa from Cambodia I hear without having any letters of invitation etc.. The guys from HCMC will know better.

You can get local insurance, Bao Viet for about 300 dollars a year but this will only cover Asia. Again, maybe the more knowledgeable will chime in here.

The New Hanoian, which I think has a website and forum for HCMC is a big one and some advice may be found there.

For child care, I wouldn't really trust too much here in Hanoi but again HCMC may have better staff and facilities.

If you have your mind set to come here then fair enough, but I have a few rhetorical questions: Thailand would offer better health care and an environment for a child (the hospitals are like hotels). If your child is still a rug rat then no problem but considering the traffic problem in the major cities...there are no pavements or sidewalks here for a youngster that wants to run around.
The food is better in Thailand, and as a supply teacher you would have more opportunity.
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skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of detail about current visa hassles in other threads. Read carefully and then imagine the extra trouble and anxiety with 3 of you involved.

I don't think local insurance would be much use to you. It is prohibitively expensive if you have any kind of pre-existing condition. And I'm not sure how reliable it is if something serious actually happens to you.

Most will only fly you to Thailand if it is serious.

I've never heard of anyone making much money with 'supply teaching' at an international school in Vietnam. They seem to be able to find full time teachers or hire (any old fool) short term to cover a shortfall. Either way I don't think you can combine 'flexibility' with income. If you need a few weeks break they will just fire you - no benefits or anything and may even withhold pay you are owed.

But I don't have any inside scoop so maybe someone can speak with real authority on this.

Generally, I think your post has a number of alarm bells and I wonder if you have though this proposed move through at all thoroughly. Maybe you're just in the initial 'what if' stages.

I have to ask....Why not stay in Canada and get a job in the local school system?

To enjoy Vietnam you have to be young free and single or married to a local - other options seem to get old real fast. IMO anyway.

Decent housing for a family of three in a good area of HCMC can be prohibitive. Schools help little if at all. HCMC is also a horrible place to live nowadays - pollution, noise, crime, overcrowded....

Also - local international school do not pay that great. Your husband would have to foot the bill for the regular flights back and forth to see doctors. Supply teaching (if it even exists) is unlikely to cover the major costs of living here - housing, visa runs and insurance/medical bills. You may be too busy for a few weeks then have nothing to do for months at a time.

Also - I worry your obvious drawbacks to an employer might offset any added value from your teaching quals and experience - even if exceptional. That just doesn't seem to matter here and employers will go for people who they can most easily exploit over people who may actually know what they are doing. Too much savvy can actually be a red flag for some of the less creditable employers.

Bottom line - look really hard before you leap.

BTW - what exactly are the perks you crave that living in Asia brings? I love it but if we know what exactly you're looking for in Vietnam we might be better able to advise.
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redsneef



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@vabeckele-cheers will look into the new hanoian.

@skarper--there are many perks to living in Asia. The cost of living is so low. So much more lower than Canada, especially Quebec where the taxes here are out of this world. You forget taxes all together living overseas. Cheap labour. I can hire someone to cook, clean and mind my child for a faction of the price. Even Philippinos are cheaper in Vietnam and hassle free (have to sort through too much red tape here to hire domestics). Beauty care is über cheap. In shanghai I had my hair washed and dried out every two days, mani and pedis every couple of days and massages often. Not to mention life outside the house is always fun, who ever said you had to be young, single or married to a local to have fun surely does not know how to truly live in Asia. Also, travel, so much cheaper and easier than from anywhere in Canada. Do you know for the same price as flying from Vancouver to Toronto once, I can visit Thailand umpteen times. So as you see lots of perks.

As for any serious medical care, it would be to fly To Thailand, Singapore or hong kong. My question was around non life threating care like physio or occupational therapy. Any care regarding my sons condition that requires surgery would be through our hospital (Shriners) in Montreal or Philadelphia at no cost to us save for flights.

As for making a living as a supply teacher, in a proper international school, is easily done. I would be on call for when teachers are sick, mat leave(which would be a short term contract) or any professional development days. Besides, like I said, my husband is mobile, which means his bank account is mobile, and therefore we can be mobile and not have to worry about making a living. We just want to travel, work a bit, travel a bit more, study, travel and not have to worry about the being tied to Canada's tax system, or working in their slow bureaucratic system(school boards here are riddled with the stupid union)

So before you raise the red flags, please understand I'm not some green behind the ears newbie to Asia. I get it, travelled it often and would like some helpful information from those on the ground in hcmc. I have friends in Hanoi, but Hanoi reminds me of Beijing and I hate Beijing. Hcmc reminds me of an earlier version of shanghai before the overload of expat migration.

Cheers
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LettersAthruZ



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly? I'd really look at going back to Shanghai (or possibly another city in China).

redsneef wrote:
As for making a living as a supply teacher, in a proper international school, is easily done. I would be on call for when teachers are sick, mat leave(which would be a short term contract) or any professional development days.

NOT to sound condescending, but read what Skarper wrote above about this.....as they say here - "T.I.V. = This IS Vietnam"


....yes...even at the level of an "International School".....


In terms of your questions -

1) - Last I had heard from people up here about tourist visa runs, it was still a 90-day maximum visa given out at the airport upon arrival. This visa-on-arrival is granted at the airport ONLY, so you have to fly out and back in. As stated above, I do believe that the 90-day tourist visa CAN STILL be renewed one time in-country.....any recommended travel agent (Chi's at 40 Bùi Viện in D-1 would be a good start) can probably renew it for you.

They HAVE given out six-month and one-year tourist visas in Cambodia, but there is still some question as to whether they still currently do this today (rumour had it that Ha Noi cracked down on this and that it had been stopped), but it might be worth a trip over there to see if you can still avoid the every-three-months visa-run headache.

2) - There MAY be (probably are) some facilities in HCMC with Western-standard medical practices. There ARE a couple in Ha Noi, but, from what I understand, even by Western standards of wealth, they are prohibitively expensive (and I would just guess that the costs for Western-style medical facilities in HCMC are equally as high). China is waaaaay ahead of Viet Nam in this area.

3) - I can't help you on this one. Just MAKE SURE that either the Canadian Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance or the expat travel insurance has AIRLIFT-TO-BANGKOK-OR-SINGAPORE coverage on it!

4) - The good folks on this forum who reside in HCMC would be able to help you with finding such a forum online. I myself use The New Hanoian.

5) - I've been to Shanghai.....there is nothing even comparable to the French Concession in HCMC (or even The Bund, for that matter). From what I hear, however, there are loads of livable neighbourhoods there, though.

Generally, I would not recommend Viet Nam for your situation. However, it does seem to show from your posts that you have considerable resources. So, that being said, a LOT of visa/work permit/immigration issues are EASILY resolved with a....errrmmmm....uhhh...."suggested donation" to certain authorities!

Enjoy your time here! Very Happy
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skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean to be insulting but I do think Vietnam is not the best option for you. Thailand might be better. Singapore maybe??

I don't think there is any maternity leave or professional development even in international schools. Schools tend to avoid employing women who are still having children as far as I can tell.

International schools are not my area so others can perhaps correct my impressions of this.

I think your biggest bugbear will be visas. The goalposts move constantly and with 3 of you to arrange tourist visas for it would seem too much trouble.

I'm sure some people manage to enjoy Asia with a family in tow but Vietnam is a special case. Marriage eliminates 90% of the visa hassles and being single allows some people options that are expensive/difficult or whatever in other countries. I myself am married so no sleazy subtext for me.

We have had a few people come on here lately ask for advice and then argue with it. Ignore/discount it if you want but we are only trying to help. No offense intended.
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