Job Discussion Forums

SiThep · Joined: 30 May 2013 Posts: 39 Location: Thailand

This is Jef dam's work below. I think it's pretty clear what this guy's game is.

How's it going. If you're looking for a language school gig you may be limited with your choices due to your degree. However, the regulations are a lot laxer than some people would have you believe and there are ways for companies to get around them if they think you're worth the punt. The vast majority of people don't comply with the DIKNAS regulations and it doesn't stop them from getting the correct, or an approximation of the correct, paperwork.

Best advice I can give you is to apply and see what happens. The worst thing a company can say is no. I've included a list of websites for language schools, all of which pay more than EF, some of which will be able to get you a KITAS etc.

http://www.eec.co.id

http://tbi.co.id/

http://k-elt.com/about/about_index

http://www.directenglish.com/

http://www.inlingua.com/centers-countries.asp?RefCtr=10

http://aimjakarta.com/english/

High schools and international schools usually begin their recruitment in and around March / April and if you can get into one they will get you the correct papers regardless of your degree and generally 15m up. Experience is a must though.

EF pay is pretty bad but it's quite livable. AFAIK the starting wage for someone with a CELTA is around 9M, or at least it was when I work there 4 years ago. If overtime goes your way you could potentially pocket about 10M a month. You won't be living the high life but you definitely won't go hungry, and all and all it's quite a soft number and most of the DoS's working for them have enough common sense to see the job for exactly what it is. Worst case scenario you can use a year in EF to research better jobs and make contacts in order to move on.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

jef dam · Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 79

Uh-oh.......

SiThep · Joined: 30 May 2013 Posts: 39 Location: Thailand

Jef Dam made a post on one of the threads volunteering to help people who were looking to work in Indonesia. He suggested they PM him. I did so but he responded by telling me that most teachers are not working on the right visa these days. He gave me a list of schools I might consider where things weren't always legal. These were EEC, TBI, KET and AIM.

I hadn't made a big deal about it at the time but I noticed since that he has been very aggressive with anyone who suggested that there any risks of working on the wrong visa. It seemed to me highly suspicious that not only has he been secretly giving advice about how to work illegally in Indonesia through PMs but has been attacking anyone who said it was dangerous in the forums.

jef dam · Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 79

So many shoddily constructed straw-men being bandied about in this thread it's a veritable fire hazard!

If people giving you advice on the internet upsets you, perhaps you shouldn't go seeking advice on the internet.

As for getting aggressive with people suggesting there are risks working on the incorrect visa, please show me where.

I asked for a credible link to a story that Princess pulled out of thin air and explained why I was skeptical of the link she provided. Hardly 4chan level flaming, and quite a reasonable request considering she's talking about teachers getting deported from the country that I happen to be a teacher in.

Instead of providing a credible link to the latest news, Princess chucked her toys out of the pram, berated me for a post in another thread, and went on to make unfounded accusations about my motives for posting in this thread.

I have no problem with anyone warning people about the risks of working on VKU visa's. I do, however, find posting invented stories as fact, and using an on-going child abuse case involving an international school as a make weight for the story, incredibly crass.

princesss · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 152 Location: japan/indo/aust

princesss · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 152 Location: japan/indo/aust

Jef Dam has been caught red-handed offering advice of how to work illegally in Indonesia and he still keeps criticizing others. Incredible. What pray tell does "the approximation of the right paperwork"mean? He was using the misleading word "right" about the completely wrong visa. He is tricking people into working on a VKU visa which is completely illegal. You cannot teach English on a business consultant visa. End of story. Is JD going to claim that 6 flights to Singapore per year to do VKU visa runs is legal?The schools that do this are placing teachers in danger.

How does this site feel about the fact that Jef Dam is procuring teachers for schools that don't even advertise on here like KET and Direct English. Why don't these schools just cough up a hundred bucks and place an ad rather than doing it on the cheap through Jef Dam? I am sure he will say he is doing this out of the kindness if his heart but one suspects he is getting commission.

Tazz · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 512 Location: Jakarta

A few comments here......1st of all regarding the 'outing' of 'Jef Dam'- I fail to see how the guy has been caught 'red handed' as it were....in what way is he 'advising' people to work illegally? He merely points out the ambiguity of the system here-how some schools/companies are able to hire teachers 'legally' with what appear to be inappropriate qualifications, while other schools are unable to get the Kitas at all.
To 'SiThep'-remind me to never hold open the door when you are behind me mate! 'I think it's pretty clear what this guy's game is'-REALLY??! well lets hear it from you then-all I can see is a PM that offers genuinely worthwhile advice and information for anybody thinking of coming to Indonesia to work...not the words of a recruiter-or somebody who has a vested interest in any particular school. I wonder what motive you have for this malicious bout of 'back-stabbing.'
Finally-'Princess', what is your motive in contributing to this thread? The whole thing smacks to me of trying to 'hook' the original advice regarding not working on a VKU directly to TBI Bogor through a rather weak and questionable blog posting.....as pointed out by Jef Dam-which you took such offence to!

Tazz · Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Posts: 512 Location: Jakarta

A few comments here......1st of all regarding the 'outing' of 'Jef Dam'- I fail to see how the guy has been caught 'red handed' as it were....in what way is he 'advising' people to work illegally? He merely points out the ambiguity of the system here-how some schools/companies are able to hire teachers 'legally' with what appear to be inappropriate qualifications, while other schools are unable to get the Kitas at all.
To 'SiThep'-remind me to never hold open the door when you are behind me mate! 'I think it's pretty clear what this guy's game is'-REALLY??! well lets hear it from you then-all I can see is a PM that offers genuinely worthwhile advice and information for anybody thinking of coming to Indonesia to work...not the words of a recruiter-or somebody who has a vested interest in any particular school. I wonder what motive you have for this malicious bout of 'back-stabbing.'
Finally-'Princess', what is your motive in contributing to this thread? The whole thing smacks to me of trying to 'hook' the original advice regarding not working on a VKU directly to TBI Bogor through a rather weak and questionable blog posting.....as pointed out by Jef Dam-which you took such offence to!

princesss · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 152 Location: japan/indo/aust

A principal of a school reported that spot checks of schools are underway and he mentions that 7 teachers on business visas have been sent home. A link to that website was posted. Now I have no idea why a school principal would go online under his own nsme and say these things if they weren't true. Presumably the principal of National Plus school is a person of good character but I don't know him personally. Is Tazz suggesting he is making this stuff up for fun? What motive would he have to lie?

Then there is the ridiculous double standard of Jef Dam ranting about how credible the source is when he was saying Wall Street was having visa troubles based on a single Facebook page which he refused to even show a link to. Why does he care about the credibility of other people's sources but not his own?

And then how does he know which six schools employ people on "an approximation of the right paperwork" if he doesn't represent them in any way? It's clear he is attacking any negative news about VKU visas because he has been assuring people falsely that they aresafe.

bradleycooper · Joined: 12 Apr 2013 Posts: 310

p1randal · Joined: 23 Jun 2008 Posts: 84

Much of this board can be summed up with a "Buyer beware" sign. Anyone who takes things on here as the gospel is crazy haha. Jefdam and Princess both cited things that are shaky at best. As most of us know, things in Indonesia are "not the same for everyone" so just because something happened in Bogor that doesn't mean anything will happen in Jakarta, Etc.

I don't really care if people are working here illegally. If you don't have a degree in English/English Teaching/MA TESOL you are really teaching something you don't have any business teaching. So in my mind it is all the same, let the schools hire them and if they get caught they get caught. Spending 2 minutes on here will show you enough to know that possibility exists.

I would have to say that if you can't find a Nat Plus job you wither aren't remotely qualified or you aren't trying hard enough. I have a friend who has an ICT background and got job offers all over the place to teach English. Granted he is in the country but it isn't that hard.

jef dam · Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 79

Such a wonderful farce this thread has become, save for Tazz's and P1randal's sane posts.

Tell you what, those posts of mine which are aggressive, advising people to work illegally, or covert adverts for every language school in the greater Jakarta area, please report them to the moderating team.

princesss · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 152 Location: japan/indo/aust

jef dam · Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 79

Report my posts, let the mods sort it out.

If asking for a link, being skeptical of an unsourced story, and compiling a list of schools to apply for and providing a realistic assessment of someones prospects of employment via private message, after being asked to do so no less, is inappropriate carry on then they won't be long seeing to it that I'm dealt with.

princesss · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 152 Location: japan/indo/aust

Based on past experience, I think complaining about threads and getting them taken down is more your style than mine. Every time someone says something you don't like you get aggressive and then play the victim if people challenge you. But if you insist in coming on here and trying to do free advertising for certain schools by PMing users, then that's up to you.

http://tbi.co.id/

http://k-elt.com/about/about_index

http://www.directenglish.com/

http://www.inlingua.com/centers-countries.asp?RefCtr=10

http://aimjakarta.com/english/

You do realize you are cheating Dave's out of rightful advertising revenue by this deceitful practice though. Other schools have to pay to get their name on this site.

The big question for me remains, what exactly did you mean by "an approximation of the right visa"? You either have a KITAS (work visa) or you don't. If you work on a VKU or a tourist visa that is ILLEGAL. Why do you want to fight this very simple and very clear point over and over?

Does your employer provide you with a KITAS?