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teachingld2004
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 389
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: My new classes. |
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OMG.................
OK, it only was been one day so far, but this term will be quite difficult.
I only have 2 classes, but they each come for 4 hours; two on Monday and two on Tuesday.
These students are potential teachers. Sophomores.. 40 in one class and 44 in the other.
The desks are bolted to the floor, and they sit on stools. There is no room to put them in groups. Extra space in the room is limited.
Their levels are ALL quite low, and they barely understood what I said. The books they have are way too hard.
I am not a newbie. I am teaching a long time. Still, this situation is going to be quite taxing. If I was a drinker who knows what I would have drank after these two classes when I got home yesterday.
This is more like a rant, but some kind of advice may help me.
I have them again today. I will certainly try my best, but I do not have high expectations.
Only one person has an English name, and he can not even pronounce it.
Today I have things to do, but next week we will talk about names I told them that for class they must have an English name.
It is hard enough to remember all their faces, but 83 Chinese names are impossible for me to remember. I can not even say them.
Good luck to me, and anyone out there who has huge classes of low level students
My goal is simple for this term: get them to improve. |
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Javelin of Radiance

Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 1187 Location: The West
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:10 am Post subject: |
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teachingld2004 wrote: |
OMG.................
OK, it only was been one day so far, but this term will be quite difficult.
I only have 2 classes, but they each come for 4 hours; two on Monday and two on Tuesday.
These students are potential teachers. Sophomores.. 40 in one class and 44 in the other.
The desks are bolted to the floor, and they sit on stools. There is no room to put them in groups. Extra space in the room is limited.
Their levels are ALL quite low, and they barely understood what I said. The books they have are way too hard. |
You didn't know or anticipate this beforehand? There's nothing unusual about any of this in China (I'd say it's the norm), and many of us have similar problems.
teachingld2004 wrote: |
I am not a newbie. I am teaching a long time. Still, this situation is going to be quite taxing. |
Come on, if you've been teaching a long time, and in China, then you should have adapted to this by now.
teachingld2004 wrote: |
I have them again today. I will certainly try my best, but I do not have high expectations. |
teachingld2004 wrote: |
My goal is simple for this term: get them to improve. |
So set low expectations and if you achieve them, set them higher again. Small increments of improvement are fine.
teachingld2004 wrote: |
Only one person has an English name, and he can not even pronounce it.
Today I have things to do, but next week we will talk about names I told them that for class they must have an English name.
It is hard enough to remember all their faces, but 83 Chinese names are impossible for me to remember. I can not even say them. |
Why tell them they MUST have an English name? Give them the option, and make an effort yourself to try remember their real names if that's what they choose to use in class. Focus on the teaching, not fluff like English names.
teachingld2004 wrote: |
This is more like a rant, but some kind of advice may help me. |
I can understand a good rant when necessary, but this hardly seems like the kind of stuff to get upset about. If you have trouble dealing with this then maybe you're in the wrong job. Sorry, just telling it like it is. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012 Posts: 478
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: |
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These students are potential teachers. |
Quote: |
Their levels are ALL quite low, and they barely understood what I said. The books they have are way too hard. |
Maybe you should start with, "These students are NOT potential teachers."
Then work from there. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:04 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Why tell them they MUST have an English name? |
Quote: |
Focus on the teaching, not fluff like English names. |
I disagree with this. In my experience, students usually enjoy having a new name for the class. I've taken courses in three foreign languages (Latin, Chinese and Spanish) and the instructors always gave us ethnic names. It's good for students to start with something that is "theirs".
OP, another good starting point is numbers. Write some Arabic numerals on the board (which they will all recognize) and tell them the English words for these symbols. You'll at least get them to say SOMETHING in English and you may find that they know more English than you think once you get them talking. |
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choudoufu

Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:54 am Post subject: Re: My new classes. |
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teachingld2004 wrote: |
OMG.................If I was a drinker who knows what I would have drank..... |
i would have gone with "if i were a drinker, who knows how much i would have drunk."
but that's just me. and it woulda been a lot. probably stout beer.
or maybe weizen.
MOD EDIT
2. spend one of your two hours giving them an evaluation. both written
and oral and listening. you gotta know where they are now. anyhoo, can't
always trust first impressions. sometimes their simply too scared (or too
taken by your rugged studlyness) to respond.
3. book too hard? throw it out. use your own materials based on their
level....levels actually.
4. pick the best 4 students in each class to be assistants/tutors. you
can break the classes in to smaller groups based on levels, let your tutors
manage other groups while you work with just one. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
book too hard? throw it out. |
Even if it's not. These books they've got...... |
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Javelin of Radiance

Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 1187 Location: The West
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:46 am Post subject: Re: My new classes. |
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choudoufu wrote: |
teachingld2004 wrote: |
OMG.................If I was a drinker who knows what I would have drank..... |
i would have gone with "if i were a drinker, who knows how much i would have drunk."
but that's just me. and it woulda been a lot. probably stout beer.
or maybe weizen.
1. give 'em english names. absolutely required. there's no way you can
learn 40-ish chinese names.....wang jin ping and huang qin peng and
hu flung doo and............ |
You might as well say it's impossible for us dumb laowai to ever speak Chinese as well because we have no chance of learning and remembering words or characters with similar sounds.
I wonder how many people even make an effort to learn the Chinese names? teachingld only has 84 students and sees them twice a week. With that few if someone can't remember the names of at least half of them by by the end of a term then they're doing something wrong. I don't remember all the names either (I've got nearly 300 students though) but by the end of the year I remember at least a third of them. Here are a few ideas that were passed on to me by someone else in China to help with remembering names:
1. Have each student make a simple name card (in pinyin, no-one says they all have to be in hanzi) and have them put it in front of them each class.
2. As long as you can get students to all sit in the same place each week (not hard, most seem to do that already) then make and print out a table with seating plan. Want to ask a student a question? Find out who you want to ask, check the corresponding box on your seating plan, call the name.
3. Have a class list (in numerical order by student number) with all the Chinese names and every time you call a name, when that person replies you can associate a face with that name. Put a check-mark beside a name each time you call it so as to call on them equally.
4. Just like you learn knife, fork and spoon in the same language lesson, when trying to remember names learn them in some kind of context that helps you. Week 1, try remember the names of all the pretty girls (5-10). Week 2, try the names of the few boys in class (3-4). Week 3, the best students (0-5). Week 4, the ones who always come late to every class (2-3). Weeks 5-6-7, the worst students (0-20).
5. If you live on campus and see your students outside then use their names then too, and by the end of the term you've got a fair number of names down.
6. Can't figure out how to remember Xiao Hua? Try "Little flower." One of my new students actually suggested that to me earlier today when she introduced herself.
I've used all these with a pretty decent level of success. I'm not saying knowing all the Chinese names is something we have to do, but people, including students, actually like it if you can remember their name.
BTW I'm not against English names, just against telling students they have to have one. They don't all want one. But if you absolutely insist on English names, then I guess Jupiter, Devil, Watermelon and 7-up do have a nice ring to them 
Last edited by Javelin of Radiance on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sui jin
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: near the yangtze
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: |
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If your total schedule is 8 hours a week (maybe my maths is wrong ?) then you are already on a winner, in my view.
These classes sound like they are 'three year major' students who expect to become primary school teachers (ie their high school grades were too poor to get into 4 year college).
The 'none have English names' scenario is unusual, and suggests perhaps a group resistance to learning English. I would offer those who want English names a list of choices , and then accept that some will not want one. As JoR said , learning a few pinyin names is not hard if you use the name card system.
40 and 44 students per class are not huge classe sizes , but difficult to organise if they are in fixed rows. I think you should first think about doing some simple exercises and activities, to get their attention and interest. Forget the textbook for now.
I used to take my large, low-level classes outside for one period sometimes, to the sportsground, and have them split into groups and prepare/do something (but this works only in the spring or autumn!). We would start with a relay race or some physical activity to wake them up! The college did not seem to mind. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: |
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English learners need English names. People cannot pronounce most Chinese names correctly. Example, Wang Xiaoyu, I can only imagine how my mother would say that. I always tell those reluctant to pick an English name that few English speakers will be able to say their name. If they refuse I purposely mispronounce their name every time I say it.
It is very common and often needed for learners of a second language to chose a name in the second language, especially when they are very different, like English and Chinese. I can get by using my name in most European languages, but when I meet someone in a Chinese speaking context, well, I am Wang Daning. If I tell them my real name they will miss pronounce it and forget it quickly. If I use Wang Daning they will remember and for the most part say it correctly (here in Sichuan they like to say Wang Daling). |
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Mr. Leafy

Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 246 Location: North of the Wall
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:50 am Post subject: Re: My new classes. |
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Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
I wonder how many people even make an effort to learn the Chinese names? |
I make an effort but then we lose too much class time while they roll around laughing at what I said by getting the tones wrong.
The first week of class is so much fun.
One thing I have learned is that it is not very useful to use the English names of Chinese co-workers because even people who have worked together for years may not know each others' English names, at least at my school. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Why not just learn their family names and call them "Miss Tang" or "Mr. Zheng" (or whatever)? |
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isitts
Joined: 04 Jun 2010 Posts: 193 Location: Korea
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:46 am Post subject: Re: My new classes. |
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teachingld2004 wrote: |
OK, it only was been one day so far, but this term will be quite difficult….
The desks are bolted to the floor, and they sit on stools. There is no room to put them in groups. Extra space in the room is limited.
Their levels are ALL quite low, and they barely understood what I said. The books they have are way too hard.
I am not a newbie. I am teaching a long time. Still, this situation is going to be quite taxing. If I was a drinker who knows what I would have drank after these two classes when I got home yesterday.
This is more like a rant, but some kind of advice may help me….
Only one person has an English name, and he can not even pronounce it.
Today I have things to do, but next week we will talk about names I told them that for class they must have an English name.
It is hard enough to remember all their faces, but 83 Chinese names are impossible for me to remember. I can not even say them.
Good luck to me, and anyone out there who has huge classes of low level students… |
I see the locals in China like to troll the Dave’s forums, too. Have had a few of these sorts on the K-forums. |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011 Posts: 924 Location: China
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:19 am Post subject: |
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I hand round the register I get from the office with the students numbers on it on the first day. I ask them to write either their English name, if they have one, or their Chinese name in pinyin. They often forget to write the tones, so I have to guess. I tell them my Chinese is not that good, but I do try my best. I use it to illustrate to them that I understand how hard some of them find it to speak up in English. If I can have a go at saying their names in Chinese and do it badly, then they can begin to understand that getting it wrong is not the end of the world, and so it's okay to try. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:27 am Post subject: |
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I see the locals in China like to troll |
That occurred to me, but it might be a beginner (despite the statement to the contrary) or a non-native speaker (the grammatical errors and stilted syntax). |
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zactherat
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Posts: 295
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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:47 am Post subject: |
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wangdaning wrote: |
English learners need English names. People cannot pronounce most Chinese names correctly. Example, Wang Xiaoyu, I can only imagine how my mother would say that. |
Tones aside (because most Chinese people don't use standard tones),
Wang Xiaoyu /wæŋʃɑʊju:/ doesn't include any sounds outside the standard 44 phonemes of the English language. Your mum might not be able to decode pinyin, but that doesn't mean she's unable to pronounce it.
I agree with other posters that suggest that English names should be optional, not mandatory. Every other culture lives with English appropriations of names (dropping rolled and rhotic 'r', changing stress patterns, etc.). |
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