Job Discussion Forums

[lenny321]

I know this topic has been discussed before here, but I according to statistics and news reports it's just getting worse and also out of control. I'm considering going back to VN (HCMC), but the thing that concerns me most is the increase of crime.

I was bagsnatched once, most of the people I know have similar or worse experiences. According to official statistics of consulates in Saigon the number of cases reported by tourists in the 1st half of 2013 is already larger than all the reported cases of 2012.

Recently I read about a nasty new trick called "crash & rob" (see article below), and there also seems to be a rise of violent (and sometimes deadly) street fights as a way of "settling" accidents.

I came across a quote by a VN sociologist which I find very fitting:

“In an open economy, every person is encouraged to push their abilities to the limit for personal gain. This has unexpectedly encouraged individualism and egoism and causes more conflicts.”

Here are the two articles I am (partly) referring to:
http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20130808-violence-capitalism-and-dodgy-cops.aspx

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20130808-vietnam-metro-robbers-get-new-tricks.aspx

I just wonder how people can cope with a crime scene that is so "in your face". I'm struggling, to be honest.

[vabeckele]

Yeah, it worries me too. Every time I have has an incident on the road it never ceases to amaze me how quickly a crowd will appear and take the Vietnamese person's side. On time, a guy just turned up and tried to take the bike, but then I tried to take the keys of this SH Honda.

Maybe I'm over-thinking things but I always feel, especially from the younger guys. that they always have to try and cut me up, push me into a gap I can't fit into, or onto the side, and this is on top of the already dangerous 'mosquito' type of driving here. Another common one, not exclusive to foreigners, is the driver trying to clip the front tire of the motorbike as he swerves in front of you.

I have seen fights break out with sticks and machetes and the wounds inflicted are horrendous, still they continue. I don't think this is because of a desire to be tough or courageous, I really believe they don't understand the consequences of having a huge gash appear on their person.

[Ramen]

[skarper]

Shocking those these events are there is plenty of violent crime in all countries. More in some UK cities on a Friday or Saturday night.

I for one have experienced no violent or direct crime while living in Vietnam (or Korea/Japan or even in France).

The only brushes with theft I've had were some money stolen by a family member who was working for us (which was our own fault really as she had a reputation for light-fingered activity) and we had a fish stolen from our garden in a rented house - landlord's fish and they didn't blame us or try to get us to pay.

But it's out there and you have to take elementary precautions. Policing is so ineffectual that the chances of being caught and prosecuted for a crime are remote and no deterrent at all. There isn't much of a detective force from what I can tell. But again - we have an exaggerated idea of all this from watching the TV. I get the impression the police in most countries are as likely to arrest the innocent as the guilty.

So - while some seem to be the victims of a lot of crime many indeed most people are not. To a degree this is lifestyle. Where you go, when and what you do. But also this is just a statistical quirk. If the incidence of crimes was distributed evenly across the population that would be extremely unlikely. So some folks get robbed/assaulted multiple times and inevitably these are the folks who we hear from/about.

[ExpatLuke]

Easy solution: Don't teach or live in Hanoi or HCMC... Living in Danang is one of the safest places I have ever been. In Hanoi I had to be constantly on alert, and I had several friends who had their bag slashed and items stolen from them.

In Danang there's nothing of the sort. Any crime here is very rare. I've read some of the horror stories from HCMC about girls having earrings ripped out of their ears etc, and I definitely would never want to live in a place like that. Here in Danang I see girls with their purses hanging off the backs of their bikes, slung over one arm all the time. No one is concerned about the drive-by purse snatching that everyone was watchful for in Hanoi.

[cb400]

In today's paper:

V

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[skarper]

It should be the absolute last resort but if forced to fight don't hold back. Try to finish it quickly. If you suspect you will have to face legal consequences or serious retaliation leave the country immediately.

But it is less likely to happen if you steer clear of sleazy bars and such like.

And I'm in Danang too now so factor that in too.

When I was in Hanoi it was 5 years ago and I didn't notice any trouble. I would walk home close to midnight without any worries.

Paris was a lot worse.

[spycatcher reincarnated]

Having lived in HCMC for a long time and now considering leaving with my family to a native English speaking country. One of my concerns with the new country will be safety for my family.

I feel safe here, but am worried about elsewhere. Maybe just because it will be new for me, but it is a concern.

[ExpatLuke]

Actually, now that I think of it, the only fights I've seen in the past few years have been between drunk Westerners at a bar late at night. Usually a few smashed Europeans who take something said in English the wrong way.

Although, I have noticed those large groups of young Vietnamese that are always hanging out at bars are often very ready to fight. I'm not sure why this is. They're University or graduate students but they have the mentality of high schoolers whenever they're out with their girls.

I remember one time I was with my friends (a little too much to drink) and the table next to us was being obnoxiously loud, so whenever they shouted "yooooo" I'd raise my glass and shout with them. It was a bit childish I guess, and a few of them caught on that I was teasing them, so they immediately jumped up and started yelling "F--- you!" over and over again. Luckily perhaps, when they saw that I was with a large number of friends they backed down.

It seems that Vietnamese have very hard time poking fun at themselves when it involves foreigners. Little man complex I assume.

[lenny321]

@spycatcher:
I don't know what native English speaking country you're referring too, but for me, being from a European country/city where almost nothing ever happens, comparing its safety standards to Saigon's is like day and night.

What really bothers me that - due to the necessity of using a motorbike - one can't really avoid being exposed to whatever other ppl are scheming on Saigon's streets. Unless you drive a Hummer.

But maybe I'm just getting a little paranoid. Given that over 7.5 million people live in Saigon, it could be much worse.

[Ramen]

[TRH]

I wonder how much our perception of crime is colored by the local press and Vietnamese acquaintances. I know my wife is constantly trying to advise me about horrifying crimes that she reads of on the local internet press. Look at the front page of any major western newspaper and you will find it covered with stories related to politics and economics. The muggings are in the back pages. Of course you get no political/economic news here, except for stories of some minister meeting with some other third world representatives. As a result the newspapers are filled with petty crime stories and medical abnormalities creating the illusion that this is a country of constant muggings and giant tumors.

HCMC is the 25th largest city in the world and Hanoi is 31st. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population
Consider these cities: (23) Lagos, (26) Bogota, (27) Hong Kong, (30) Cairo, (33) Rio, (36) Baghdad, (52) Los Angeles, (57) Capetown. While I did not look up crime statistics, which would be difficult to compare anyway, I would venture that even without counting political violence, at least some of these cities are more dangerous than Hanoi or HCMC. It is not the gross number of crimes; it is the number of crimes per capita that matters.

[Anh Dep]

Dont forget most crime in Viet Nam is not reported to the police, locals dont trust police. Stabbings seem to becoming more common and street crime is on the rise, maybe if the police got out of their hammocks and hit the streets a bit more, then crime may be reduced. I personally saw three men die after a stabbing in D1, it was all over two bikes hitting each other on a roundabout.

[vabeckele]