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Construction right outside of the classroom
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FreakingTea



Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Construction right outside of the classroom Reply with quote

Most of my classes take place in relatively quiet (for China, anyway) buildings, and I have no trouble getting everyone to hear me. A few of them, though, are on a campus that is not yet completed, so I have a wall of open windows facing a construction site, and on top of that, the room is too big for the class, meaning I have to shout to be heard by anyone.

For a speaking class, this is problematic. How can the students practice speaking if they can barely hear each other when the construction workers are doing something noisy?

The first lesson was pretty easy to adjust. We played Two Truths and a Lie, so instead of the students reading their sentences out loud, I had them write on the board, and I repeated my instructions and questions as many times as I needed to while walking around the room.

But for a whole semester? Confused Has anyone else had this problem? How did you deal with it? Changing to a different classroom may or may not reduce outside noise, if I can even get it changed. I'll send an email asking about it regardless, but in case I can't, or if changing it doesn't help significantly (they are working on a few building on this campus), do you have any suggestions?

Thanks!
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing you can do is change location.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will probably be loud in another classroom too. Moving students to another classroom doesn't make them quiet Wink (the outside noise is not the issue).

Split the class into smaller groups and use the noise to your advantage. Do listening exercises by getting information from each group first and then have one group ask another. You don't need the whole class participating at one time (which would multiply the sound if it were successful).

I try to avoid writing on the board, but it is an option if it benefits the students.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're in a public university, just move somewhere that's closer to the students' next clas(es). In China, you'll get forgiveness before you'll get permission.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinatimes wrote:
It will probably be loud in another classroom too.

Maybe his college is on one of those "rare" campuses with more than one building?

chinatimes wrote:
Moving students to another classroom doesn't make them quiet Wink (the outside noise is not the issue).

He said his classes, a wall of open windows, were held adjacent to a construction site. How is the outside noise not the issue? Are you a teacher by any chance?
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maybe his college is on one of those "rare" campuses with more than one building?


I have never heard of a quieter building, but you might be on to something. Do they have loud squirrels in one building or aliens and then have only quiet mice in the other?

If so, you are right. It is rare. Not only that, what is even rarer is that I have never witnessed a class entering a quieter building and therefore becoming quieter. To the contrary, they are loud in building 1 at the same level as they are when they go to building 2. They don't say to each other, "ok, hush now, we are entering building 2 which is the quieter one."

If there are construction workers, those people will work night and day. If you want to teach the students you will need to break them up into groups so they can focus better. Why do you think they use the speakers and amplifiers for assemblies?

Quote:
He said his classes, a wall of open windows, were held adjacent to a construction site. How is the outside noise not the issue? Are you a teacher by any chance?


Ok, let me break this down in simple terms. Let's say we have a volume meter. The class is noisy at level 5 and hard to communicate with. So you tell them to be quiet and they go to 3. 5-10 minutes later they go back to 5. You repeat the command and they are quiet for 5-10 more minutes before returning to their usual level 5 volume.

YES, I HAVE TAUGHT. YES, I STILL DO. YES, I HAVE ONE OF THESE CLASSES IN 20 MINUTES. YES, IT IS NOISY. YES, THERE IS CONSTRUCTION.

Having construction which brings the volume to a 7 or 8 doesn't mean I can teach them any better in a different building. I will still have to tell them every 10 minutes to quiet down to get to a level 3. So, in my naive or ignorant mind I get the crazy idea, "Just work with the loud levels and put them into groups."

When I do that, some students don't hear me, but instead of repeating a command to be quiet I repeat the lesson to different groups.

If you prefer the other way, go for it. Tell the school to change classrooms, tell them to clean the bathrooms, tell them to put classes together so you don't have to take long breaks just to teach 3 classes.

Chances are, it isn't going to happen. Some things you have to deal with on your own and find alternatives, which I understand is a good trait for teachers to have.

If the students are in the classroom for 11 classes, that means 10 other teachers are putting up with the same noise outside. The construction workers don't sit around waiting until the foreign English teacher walks in to start pounding and making noises.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Re: Construction right outside of the classroom Reply with quote

FreakingTea wrote:
Changing to a different classroom may or may not reduce outside noise, if I can even get it changed. I'll send an email asking about it regardless, but in case I can't, or if changing it doesn't help significantly (they are working on a few building on this campus), do you have any suggestions?


send an email? nah, that won't help. you need to do the legwork yourself.

wander around the campus and locate possible replacement classrooms.
next head to your department office, they 'should' have a copy of the
master list showing classroom assignments. pick the ones available
during your class, and find time to visit them.

decide the one you want, and a second choice, and write up a memo for
your fao/department/whatever. sign it. date it. stamp it with the groovy
name seal you got at the antique market.

you gots to remove the thinking from the equation. never ask them to
solve the problem if you want it solved. otherwise, you'll likely get the
classroom next door.........directly across from the cement mixer.

if that fails, schedule your class for 12-2 when the workers are sleeping.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is very little hope a change will be allowed. If you try to schedule a class on the other side of a campus that means 40 students have to walk across the campus and back. They will lose the break time and the school is likely not going to accept this. They are scheduled to be in rooms for a specific reason and someone from the administration office will be going to each class to check up on whether or not the teacher and students have shown up.

If you switch classrooms you could get "in trouble". If you are doing an English corner type of event in the evening then it's quite possible it will be allowed until a classroom next you complains. We had this happen to our English corner. After mid-terms, teachers did not allow students to go to the English corner. I looked at what they were told to do instead, which was to sit in smaller classrooms and do independent study. However, no one did and made more noise running around because there wasn't a teacher there to supervise them Confused

It's amazing how they can ruin a good thing and make the situation worse.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Just work with the loud levels and put them into groups."

best advice
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teenoso



Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 365
Location: south china

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow , some seriously weird replies to this question! It is not the students who are loud, only the construction work , so the outside noise is the only issue (right?)
"work with the loud levels " is not good advice. If she/he could that , why would she/he ask for help?
In this situation , I would arrive at class, and move to an empty classroom on the other side of the building. Maybe the noise will only continue for one or two weeks so you don't need a formal room-change. If there are no empty classrooms, give up and get the students to do book work , or chat in pairs, while you circulate .
Have you ever seen Chinese teachers using portable microphones? Maybe that would help at least the students to hear you, if you cannot escape the noise.
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roadwalker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I don't think noisy STUDENTS is the problem OP complains of, but rather an environment that is too noisy to communicate with the students and presumably, the students with each other.

I agree with the make the change and apologize if necessary type advice. Don't hold your breath until you turn blue or scream about the WTO convention on noise etc. Try to find a solution and work with the school if you can't solve it on your own. Good luck with this, OP.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is not the students who are loud, only the construction work , so the outside noise is the only issue (right?)


No, put 40-50 students in a classroom and you will get a noisy bunch. I don't know why this is so hard to accept as a reality. I have worked at 2 schools now with 18 classes in first and 18 in second year.

That is about 1,620 students. Then, between classes they go outside and play, making even more noise. Teachers use microphones and speakers as well as a large PA system. I took video today before they went out for their daily assembly. I think they use it at this school as a substitute for the eye exercises. I can post the video if you want to see.

They truly are loud. Maybe I am the only one with loud students, I don't know.

Quote:
If she/he could that , why would she/he ask for help?


Because they haven't figured a way yet to break the class up into groups. I was briefly at another school, my first experience with this, and I tried to talk to the class as a group. I lost my voice and couldn't work the 4th day. After that, I learned to manage things better. Now I can go 6 classes in a row and not have throat issues.

Bringing water is one good thing, and you should break the class into groups. Get them involved as a group. I have planes fly by, dogs barking, music blaring from the field, other classes next door being louder than the construction. If you try to talk to the class as a whole and get 1 student to only speak it will never work.

They will not sit there quiet, the school knows it, and the teachers use microphones as well as a PA system for large gatherings out on the field. They do this for a reason. If the students could be quiet for longer periods of time then the teachers wouldn't need to use the microphones and amplifiers.
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dean_a_jones



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinatimes wrote:
No, put 40-50 students in a classroom and you will get a noisy bunch. I don't know why this is so hard to accept as a reality.


It is hardly difficult to understand. But it is not the OP's complaint, and so generally useless right here, right now. You really don't seem to understand this basic point.

OP--as others have said, probably better to try to create your own solutions. Is the building/construction outside looking near completion, or are they putting the foundation down for a brand new massive building? If it doesn't look like it will last long, perhaps just put up wit it.

For a speaking class, long term construction noise often slows things down and makes it really hard to make progress. So just switch rooms on your own accord, or tell the school you will be switching (asking is usually useless). Even just hopping across the hall might help, or a higher floor. Sadly, though, most people won't care as noise pollution is a problem almost everywhere here, so you might need to figure this out on your own.
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No, put 40-50 students in a classroom and you will get a noisy bunch. I don't know why this is so hard to accept as a reality. I have worked at 2 schools now with 18 classes in first and 18 in second year.

That is about 1,620 students. Then, between classes they go outside and play, making even more noise. Teachers use microphones and speakers as well as a large PA system. I took video today before they went out for their daily assembly. I think they use it at this school as a substitute for the eye exercises. I can post the video if you want to see.

They truly are loud. Maybe I am the only one with loud students, I don't know.


This poster is off his rocker. Please, please go back to the original post and read it again. He says the NOISE is coming from the construction outside. He doesn't say he is suffering from noisy students. As a matter of fact, he seems to NOT be able to hear his students effectively due to the noisy construction work right outside the window.

Nobody is saying large groups of students can't be or aren't loud, but that is not the point of this thread. Again, go back to the top of the page and reread before making more comments, please.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He says the NOISE is coming from the construction outside.


You just don't get the concept "been there done that" do you? Do I have to show you the rubble that was created at a different school to prove I have experienced EXACTLY what the original poster stated? I too could not hear students, but telling them to be quiet and yelling from the front of the classroom didn't solve the problem.

We had to teach in buildings while a demolition crew chipped away at a building next to us. Across the street from my current school they are putting up about 5 new apartment buildings. Added to that parents have to come and park outside the school. The noise levels make it impossible to teach from the front of the classroom.

Quote:
He doesn't say he is suffering from noisy students.


Therefore students are not noisy? Now who is the one off their rocker?

Quote:
As a matter of fact, he seems to NOT be able to hear his students effectively due to the noisy construction work right outside the window.


I can relate to that in 2 ways. I taught yesterday and there was NO construction and I couldn't hear a girl in just the 2nd row.

I have had similar problems where I was at the front of the classroom and couldn't hear also. So, I walked around the classroom and talked to the groups.

In both types of cases it meant moving around. This might just be a simple case of cognitive development like when a baby tries to reach for food on the other side of the table when later they will learn to get off their chair and go to the other side.

Regardless if there is construction or not, they will have to learn this. Get up, move around. Problem solved, voila!!!!

Quote:
Nobody is saying large groups of students can't be or aren't loud, but that is not the point of this thread. Again, go back to the top of the page and reread before making more comments, please.


So, we can't use common sense here? If the original post had pertained to the students' inability to fly and shoot lasers then we should entertain that thought because that was what would have been the ONLY direction to follow in the thread?

I am sitting here putting 2 and 2 together and I can't believe construction is causing that much of a problem. Answer me this, are the other teachers saying the same thing? How come only this teacher is stating they want to move to another building? I am more inclined to believe the teacher is not teaching effectively as they could. I believe they are not approaching the problem in the correct manner.

I suggest they break the class up into groups. If you don't like it, fine. Complain to the school. I honestly don't care. I already solved the same problem my own way and if the horse won't drink from the water, then there is no need taking this horse to the water anymore. It simply will not drink.
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