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Edmond Dantes · Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Posts: 13 Location: Q8

I'm writing a book, and I ask for some help from my British colleagues.

Please tell me, how common is shall in modern British English? In American English, it’s virtually extinct—will is used 99% of the time. Is will also replacing shall in BE? I don’t need an explanation of the traditional idea that shall is used for the first person and will is used in other cases. I’m interested in reality—what do BE speakers today really say? Is will replacing shall in modern BE?

Thanks

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I believe it's most often used in suggestions that include the speaker.

"Shall we take a break now?"
"Shall we all go out for a drink?"

But I've been working around non-North-Americans for over 15 years now, so my perceptions may well have been corrupted. Laughing

Eg.: I stopped calling trousers 'pants' years ago.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:23 pm Post subject:

It's not, shall we say, going away entirely any time soon...

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Yes, let's say so:-)

artemisia · Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 875 Location: the world

I take it your book is on the distinctions between BE and AE today. I suppose 'my' brand of English can be roughly classed under 'British English'. I still use 'shall' in spoken English, but not as much as 'will'. I do use it for 'Shall we...?' (suggestions) and sometimes 'Shall I...?'.

Edmond Dantes · Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Posts: 13 Location: Q8

damn_my_eyes · Joined: 13 Jul 2013 Posts: 225

Shall I compare thee to a summers day. I use that quite often Smile

I agree with the suggestions mentioned previously.

Shall we go now?
Shall I get the bill?
Shall I stick a broom up my bum and sweep the floor too?

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:54 am Post subject:

I often tell people that the meek shall inherit the Earth... Especially if there is a will and testament stating so. Lots of shalls there - no shilly-shally.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:55 am Post subject:

When did 'shall' go extinct in the US? It was alive and well up to the Second World War at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEbwuehH35I

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

I'd say it's pretty common in BE, but maybe more common in certain regions? Where I'm from, shall is used to express future intentions as well as the other more common uses (suggestions, offers etc). It also exists in lots of expressions - "We shall see", "Shall we say" (HT to Sasha) etc.

artemisia · Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 875 Location: the world

fluffyhamster · Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject:

It might be worth taking a look in some of the corpus-based books that Geoffrey Leech has had a hand in, such as the LGSWE, or the latest edition of his Meaning and the English Verb, or perhaps this: http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/languages-linguistics/change-contemporary-english-grammatical-study?format=PB . I have all but the last (though I have the book by Algeo in that SinEL series), and could take a look in them for you if you're interested (though there is doubtless something available by way of Google Books preview etc).

greegor · Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Location: Guangzhou, China

This is an interesting discussion, because about a month ago I had it with an American friend of mine. I'm American, too, both of us expats, though that is recent for him, having left the U.S. about a year ago, my having left about 26 years ago. We're both in our 40s. But we both agree that it's still pretty common, and not just in the "Shall we?" sense and set idiomatic expressions. We both use the word to show volition - "I shall see you tomorrow," implying sort of a mild promise on the speaker's part. Maybe less common for giving commands, as in,"You shall clean this room up immediately," spoken to a child (though I have caught myself using it in that sense a few times as well).

Am I just impossibly old-fashioned? I'll admit that the latter example sounds old even to my own ears, but the former usage? I don't think so, and I'm not even entirely sure how I would express the same distinction without "shall". I'd be sad to see this usage disappear. It conveys a subtlety that I rather like.

sui jin · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: near the yangtze

"what shall we eat tonight?" cannot (?) be replaced by "what will we eat tonight?", but if you don't use shall, maybe you say "what should we eat tonight?".

I agree it is mostly nuance :
'You shall be sorry ' conveys more of a threat than 'you will be sorry ',
'we shall see..' seems to convey more feelings of uncertainty/anticipation than 'we will see...'

grahamb · Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 1945

Shall seems to be increasingly restricted to formal communication, especially written.