Job Discussion Forums

[BigZen]

Hi Everyone!

I have a question about salary and cost of living. I know much of it depends on where you live in China. I am 56 years old and retired and am considering accepting a teaching position at a university in China. I have a masters degree in TEFL, CELTA, and 25+ years experience. I was asked by a recruiter what my salary expectations were and I answered that money was not the primary goal. For me, what was more important was enjoying the teaching, having free time to travel, and vacation time to return to Japan where my wife and children live.

BigZen

[The bear]

[getbehindthemule]

Unsure what your question really is but it seems that you are set on a Uni position? (if so I will let others advise).
But if you would like a higher salary with the same long holidays, you could consider teaching at a public school (Primary/Middle/High).
You will have a week off in October, one month off for CNY, two months off in Summer and a few long weekends here and there.
I work primary and I find it low stress (certainly compared to working at an IS) and much more enjoyable that working at a private school or language mill.
This would be a full time position but the pay would be at least double that of a Uni position (even though money is not your primary concern it's still nice to have the extra pocket money ).
You will finish around 4 every day (possibly can leave early on a Friday as they tend to have meetings in the afternoon) and have the full weekend off to yourself.
GL

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

Look at some of the smaller cities in Jiangsu. That province is one of the most affluent in the country. Any city other than Nanjing and Wuxi will be small enough to be easy to get around in and be less populous (and probably a bit less developed). These last two factors have an important bearing upon cost of living.

That your contact at the university asked you about your salary expectations leads me to believe that the university that you are looking at is not a public one (or are you working with a recruiter?). When you first arrive at a public university, the offerings are take-it-or-leave-it. After you've been there awhile, a good school will find good teachers good extra work.

With your qualifications, you may be able to command a bit more than the going rate for MA level teachers (which seems not to be so standardized as they were ten years ago).

DO ask if you will be living on the same campus at which you will be teaching. Commuting is a drag. It isn't just the commute that'll wear you down. Lunch time with nowhere to take a nap is awful.

In a 2nd tier city, you will do okay with public university pay AS LONG AS the apartment and utilities are free. Also, find out how far the university is located from the center of town. If you are out in the boonies, you'll save money, but you'll go nuts with no diversion on weekends.

[HeidiHector]

Seconding everything everyone else has said.

Food tends to be more or less the same no matter where you live in China if you eat Chinese (okay, that may be a stretch, but the difference is more or less within 20-25RMB/a nice meal/person between the big cities and the small towns or roughly $4US, which is not a big deal), and food is cheap to begin with. Many schools allow you to eat at the cafeteria, which I have taken full advantage of. (I am many things but a good cook I am not.) E.g., my current school charges its employees 5RMB for breakfast and 8RMB for lunch and dinner, which is less than $4US a day in total. You can definitely eat frugally for a few days and then splurge for non-Chinese meals. Just a few weeks ago, I and a few friends went to a really fancy Italian restaurant in town, and we paid 180-200rmb/person, each having an appetizer along with an entree, and a couple of nice bottles of wine to share. The best part was that it's better Italian food than most of the Italian restaurants I have had back home in NYC.

Transportation is also dirt cheap if you stick to public transport (about 2-4RMB one way depending on the distance). My school is right by a metro stop and it's been a godsend; what used to take 1 1/2-2 hours depending on traffic just to go downtown now takes only about 40 minutes. But even ride-shares such as Didi (China's Uber) is quite cheap. The last time I called a car home from the city, I paid 30RMB. (As compared to before, when I had to take a cab, which would cost 100 plus another 50 surcharge since the driver was not keen on going to a small town at night.)

Housing is usually provided by the school, so it's either entirely free (but the quality sometimes is hit and miss) or heavily subsidized (which was my case). My apartment building is owned and managed by the school and it is furnished and newly constructed, but it is a little expensive at 2,200/mo (two bedrooms) including utilities. But it's also serviced and has its own security, which to me is all that matters since I hate cleaning. (Though they have many restrictions, like no overnight guests and curfews.)

In terms of salaries and benefits at the Uni level, local universities pay the lowest (as what others have said) but the workload also tends to be the lightest as well and the admin is (usually) pretty chill. I am not familiar with public schools/language centers since I have only worked at Sino-Foreign partnership schools for the entire time (since 2010) that I have been in the Middle Kingdom. While they pay quite well (25k+ rmb/mo plus other perks), the work involved is quite heavy as most require teachers to do composition-oriented classes (class size is 25 @ 4/5 classes a semester). The school I worked for before had 12-month contracts while my current school only has 9-month ones. Regardless, when I was at my old school, there were enough school holidays that I really didn't feel deprived of my own vacation time anyway (25 days/year). With your credentials, you should be quite competitive as a candidate. [Try looking at more established higher ed job sites like TESOL.org if you are interested, though hiring season is more or less over for these schools because of the time it takes to secure a visa.]

If I didn't have to worry about money, like you, I would definitely work at a local university instead depite the low pay and just travel/chill for the rest (4 1/2 months) of the year. And if you needed quick cash now and then, just take on a private student here and there.

Alas, I do.

Also, this thread deals with roughly the same thing:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=116373&highlight=cost+living

I would recommend searching "cost of living" (and related terms) within the forum as this is a well-discussed topic on the board.

Hope it works out for you!

Cheers!

[Kalkstein]

Cost of living really depends on what you do more so than where you live. If you want to fund your travelling/eat out and buy electronics etc... a university salary might BARELY cut it but you will save literally nothing each month no matter where you live.

I just spent 150 today on eating out in an extremely small city. If I travel/do things like go to the amusement park. That's easily 50-100 kuai for a ticket. 7000~ just doesn't cut it. Maybe for a local who doesn't do much.

In my small city I know teachers working at a sino school, qualified teachers making 20000 a month~. Their wife doesn't work and they can BARELY afford to sustain a family of 3 on that. Oh, they don't own a car or anything but they do manage to send 10% of their salary back home. So yeah, not a particularly good life either. They could barely afford their hospital care when their wife got sick.

TL;DR anything less than 10k don't expect much in the way of savings if you regularly travel/spend money but you can still live life earning that much.

[BigZen]

Dear Kalkstein, HeidiHector, OhBudPowellWhereArtThou, getbehindthemule, and
The bear,

Thanks all for the replies and the helpful information.

Sincerely,

BigZen

[donkeydonkey]

I'm always amazed at what people say the cost of living is in China. I guess my spending habits and 3rd tier city living just give me a different experience. I eat out every meal, regularly date, drink out regularly, and travel for spring festival and summer. There is no way that I could spend the kind of money that people are talking about unless I was in some sort of "Brewster's Millions" type situation.

A taxi here costs 10rmb or less anywhere in the city. I own a little gas powered scooter that I got for free from an expat who was leaving. It didn't run at the time and I spent 20 rmb on a roadside mechanic to get it running.
Gas costs me about 35 rmb/week
Buses are 1.6 rmb per ride anywhere with a bus card. 2 rmb without a bus card.
My avg. meal probably costs 6-8 rmb for lunch and 10-15 rmb for dinner. For the occasional "fancier places" it runs us around 30 or 40 rmb per person.

My apartment is free

My electric/water/gas avgs under than 100 rmb/ month

Drinking varies. Usually, my friends and I will order a bottle of Jim beam at our favorite bar and some cokes. This is 100 rmb. We also get beer, but it varies how much. It is usually less than 100 rmb per person for a "big night out" of food and drinking. These big nights are maybe once a week. We often just buy some beer and hangout at one of our friend's apartment(a friend has a rooftop with a bbq pit and tables/chairs etc.)

My trips are admittedly to cheap se asian locations, but a few thousand rmb for Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. seems plenty.

Blowing even 4k a month here seems like the desperate act of a self destructive person.

[The bear]

[Kalkstein]

[donkeydonkey]

[/quote]China's a big place.

And your prices seem ridiculously cheap for where I live/lived.

For example from the bar/western area of the city to my apartment cost 45-55 RMB. And that's not even across town. If you were to go from one side to the other I reckon it would be 100 or more.

For 6-10 rmb you could only get a meal of noodles or fried rice. For fancier/western places you're looking at around 100 - 200, totally depends on what you order of course.

Again, lifestyle choices reflect the cost of living BUT location also plays a part. As you say you're in a 3rd tier city, probably inland.[/quote]

I agreed. I just wanted to show the extremes of the cost of living based on where you live. My lifestyle in a tier 1 would be many multiples more expensive. The other approximations seem to be more based on tier 1 or popular tier 2 cities.

[The bear]

[donkeydonkey]

[quote="Kalkstein"
It's not the location it's his spending habits, I live in a tier 88 and I spend much more than him. He probably eats in very run down places.

His prices of 6-8 rmb would get you some boiled rice with mantou here. I spend between 30-60 RMB for an average meal. I I eat western food I'm spending 100+ RMB for a decent meal, even a lot of the street food is between 10-15 RMB and that stuff is rotten. A beer is 5-6 RMB in a cheap place.

My costs add up incredibly quickly;

Decent clothing = same price back home,
Camping gear = same price,
Electronics = more expensive,
To travel the weekend can cost easily 200 RMB+ (theme park, arcade, movies),
Western food off of Taobao = expensive,
Travel costs outside of China would destroy that budget,
even to play 5-a side football costs me 30/hour.
I own a western brand car = 1k insurance/month + petrol (admittedly the OP probably won't be buying a car)

Unless you live life like a poor local (4k is about a factory worker salary) you're gonna be spending a ton of money in China even in the small cities. It's all about spending habits. 4k a month certainly isn't a self destructive spending amount, not anywhere near it like he is suggesting. Some months I can spend 10k for a single person. I just bought a new DSLR and it already surpassed 4k a month, 3 times over.

I think the reason so many people find small cities cheap is because they don't speak Mandarin/go out much (not a lot of English speakers). If they went out they'd soon find their costs adding up quickly, i just bought a frozen yoghurt 1 hour ago, 14 kuai. That's twice what he spends for a meal.[/quote]

To be fair, I was talking about cost of living and not about extravagant purchases that we might enjoy. I could buy Coach bags online and make some local mei nu very happy, but i don't know if that would count as cost of living. DSLR cameras, electronics, camping gear etc are rare purchases that are nice, but I was more talking about day to day living expenses that are specific to living in a certain area. I admittedly don't have many expensive habits so my spending habits are definitely relevant, but the difference in cost of living here compared to tier 1 is pretty extreme.
Also, I find speaking mandarin actually saves you a lot of money because you're less likely to get scammed, can eat/drink in more places and can in general navigate your world a little more effectively.
Bear, you're quite right about me being inland. I am in my own little sliver of paradise that I like to call the jewel of Henan, Tier 3 was probably quite generous.

[Markness]

T1 city (the big cities): 5k per month minimum if you're living like a pauper, 10k+ if you enjoy eating out and going for beers and eating food that makes you full after eating it. Going out with other foreigners for a night on the town a few times a month is expensive (talking 500-1000 RMB per night).

T2 city (medium-sized ones): 2-3k per month if you're eating like a local and/or cook for yourself all the time which is boring. I know there are people that do it but the ingredients here are so poor that all you can eat is rice with veggies and "meat" a.k.a. something that resembles stringy wolf meat. If you want to enjoy a pizza/go out on the town once a few times a week it will cost you closer to 10k per month. Heck, even taking my wife out for hotpot costs 200-500 RMB per visit. Chinese food ain't that cheap if you want to avoid getting anal leakage.

T3 city (villages/"cities" outside of medium ones): I highly recommend not living in one of those places as you get overwhelmed regularly by the locals who have never seen a foreign person before. Cost of living can be as low as like 1k a month if you eat like a local and stick to drinking 3rmb beers from the mom and pop shops. Lots of savings here but even here in Chengdu I kill the amount that people can save there. Avoid unless desperate! I know people who live cheaply there and still only save a little bit, it is not worth it. The economy in those places never grows. The central government lobs all their money at the big cities.

[tin man]

I think that the COL is an important consideration. In my case, I have been back in the US for a few years now but if memory serves I lived fairly nicely on about $600-$700 US. This included managing my Starbucks habit (coffee not fancy drinks) and a couple of German beers on the weekends. I did cook at home often and/or ate at the school. I also went out frequently and was okay with the local places. A few times, I went out for some sushi and sake. I was not living in a big expensive city.

I did read a comment that said uni jobs pay $5K. I think that has gone up by a few thousand but it would stand to reason that folks can live okay on about $5K-$6K outside of the capital or a place like Shanghai. They may not save much but can again live on that salary.

I am planning to return this year. I won't buy a lot of toys but hopefully not have to live life too frugally. I could be off but I figure a budget of $6K-$7K should do nicely for spending purposes only.