Job Discussion Forums

[Deedadeedee]

Hi all,

Firstly, thanks goes out for this resource and those that contribute to it constructively. I've spent hours reading numerous posts over the last few days and it's been a great help but can't seem to find anything that relates to my particular dilemma.

So, to get to the chase.

I am looking to move from the UK to Beijing to work as an English teacher. I lived in Beijing previously for a year in 2009/10 as a student at BLCU and did minimal English teaching. However, I did teach 16 weeks of 3 hours a week to IELTs students at an International school. Basic grammar and conversation, trying to get the students (16-22 year old) talking English.

Anyway, now I've got my mind set on going back. I have friends in Beijing that are teaching and they tell me that it'll be easy for me to get work if I just travel to Beijing. I have had Skype interviews but nobody is willing to send me an invitation letter in which I can get a Z Visa and go on to get my residence permit. Having spoken to a few kindergartens in Beijing they just ask, 'when will I be in China?' If I was coming to China then they would like to meet me and see if I like the environment at the kindergarten and maybe do a demo class and see how I do. It's only from that basis that they would consider hiring me.

But it's not that simple as I'm working full time here in the UK and have my own place. To go to China I'd need to give up my current job and place and then commit to it that way. Without any commitment from a school in Beijing I'm getting nervous about taking that risk.

I'm not an overall fan of agencies but I have a friend in Beijing that has recently started an agency who says that if I travel out on a tourist visa, his company along with a school will help me get a visa and pay of between 12-16,000 rmb per month which is very appealing to me. All I need to do is email his company my CV, copy of my degree etc etc, which I haven't done as yet.

I'm also on a very tight budget so what I'm trying to find out is:

1. Am I being told the correct information? Is it possible to travel to Beijing on a tourist visa and go on to get a Z visa etc etc (work teaching and residence permit)?

2. Do UK nationals still command a premium as teachers due to accent etc etc?


Thanks, any constructive help will be very much appreciated

Hope those of you in China are enjoying the holidays

[teenoso]

1. No - read the numerous threads about visas . Beijing is almost certainly stricter than any other place, and now requires a criminal background check (which is expensive and time-consuming to do in the UK), and probably a return to UK to get the z visa, or at least a trip to HK.

2. No - you're kidding, right? This never happened here. Prepare for some salty comments!

[johntpartee]

[A593186]

You claim to have read many threads, but not the stickys that explain exactly the issue.

[vikeologist]

You can't change a tourist visa to a z visa on the mainland. Perhaps you can in Hong Kong. I'd have my doubts because of new laws and Beijing demanding criminal checks.

Hard to know if you can get illegal teaching work in Beijing. The fines should be quite off-putting to employers, but then again, if schools aren't allowed to employ foreigners maybe they take the chance. not sure why you'd take the chance of a short stay in prison and a massive fine.

if any nationality has an advantage, it's Americans, not British, but that's just with one or two language mills.

Because lots of people want to teach in Beijing, it's not the easiest place to get work.

To sum up, based on the experiences of a very large number of people and current legislation, it's a dumb idea. things have changed.

[davelister]

dui

[doogsville]

Keep applying to schools via the Internet until you get an offer and then you can complete the paperwork and everything will be above board. The word on the Internet seems to be that Beijing among other places are tightening up and so the chances of getting caught and deported while working illegally are getting higher. In your position, giving up the home and job etc to come over here, which I've been in myself, it's even more important to get it right first time. Being put on a plane back to the UK, at your own expense, a month after arriving because you don't have a resident permit may seem unlikely right now, but is it a chance you really want to take? Be patient and do the legwork and you'll have a much better time when you do get here.

British accents command a premium? Which ones? Does my smooth Scottish tone mean I'm being underpaid? Should I ask for more money? What about the Irishman I work with who hails from the border of North and South. Should his Irish lilt make him more marketable? Or how about the Mancunian we work with who we both find hard to understand at times? Or do we all have to adopt RP or a BBC voice to access the extra cash we are being denied? Should I change my name to Spiffy cholmondeley-Whittingstall?

Just pulling your leg of course old boy, but dashed if I'm not curious as to where you got the idea that the good old Blighty accent made one more in demand. Do tell.

[muffintop]

Cockney rhyming slang = $$$$$$$$

[likwid_777]

Mr OP.

NO. Don't do it. Keep going until you find a school that will sort out the proper visa. Then, research that school to see if they have a good reputation or not. Why would they tell you that they are going to sort it out after you arrive? This indicates a limited capacity on their behalf to actually get the proper visa. This happened to me. I had to leave.

Here are some caps, just to jar your cute little thought processes.

IF THEY ARE OFFERING YOU WORK ON A TOURIST VISA, IT REEKS OF THE SCHOOL'S DODGY WAYS. THEY WILL NEVER GET THE CORRECT VISA, AND YOU WILL BE STUCK IN A RATHER COMPROMISED POSITION, UNTIL YOU ARE BOOTED OUT, OR DO A MIDNIGHT PHANTOM OUT OF CHINA.

*Ahem*.

Clear enough?

[BlueBlood]

Just curious for the old timers on the board: How long has China been strict about visas? I know it's been years, but don't know how many.

At that time, did most FT's arrive on tourist visas, if not all?

Again, just historical curiosity. I'm not going without a Z-visa and frankly, I see getting it as part of my own vetting process for the school (just as they are vetting me). If they cannot sort a Z-visa for me, how do I know they're even going to pay me on time?

[NoBillyNO]

[vikeologist]

if your question is-how long has it been impossible to change from a tourist to Z visa on the mainland, I thought that had always been the case. At least 5 years, anyway.

Illegal aliens are a curious thing for any country, as you never really know how many there are, and what they're doing exactly.

I believe that it used to be fairly easy to live and work in Beijing illegally, as it seems the OP did. Perhaps it still is.

I think the change in tone has been quite recent caused by the following factors.

There are more foreigners in China. Perhaps not teachers, but China is having to adapt to the world more and more.

It's in China's economic interests to attract the best talent to its shores, and laws have to evolve to facilitate that. (You understand that I'm not talking about foreign ESL teachers here, right)

There's a perception that foreign gangs are playing an increasing role in organised crime in China. I think that this is a particular problem in Guangzhou, and that is why they are so strict there, though this is based on anecdotal evidence rather than anything so helpful as hard facts.

This year there have been some well-publicised cases of foreign teachers abusing children. Of course, these are isolated incidents, but it's embarrassing as hell for the Police, as their, 'Hey, it's not our fault. we did ask them whether they were criminals,' is perhaps not the best defence.

No country wants a large black economy. If they could get foreign teachers paying taxes and social security, I'm sure that would be helpful for them.

China likes to control it's population, so it's just part of their culture to want to know what we're up to.

I think though the only thing that has really changed is the penalties for being caught working illegally. They are much harsher (for both schools and teachers), and have altered the balance of risk versus opportunity.

[likwid_777]