Job Discussion Forums

[Wiganesi]

Hi all,

I've got a job offer from CIEO which I found through Footprints. I've searched the forum for information on them and they seem to have pretty bad feedback from people viewing the old contract who don't work for them.
However the threads are however a bit old, and the conditions being discussed are no longer the same.

I'll just summarize what they are now offering to get some feedback.

9500RMB a month before tax

First 2 months 8500RMB probation.

After that 8500RMB salary a month and 1000RMB bonus if conditions set in the contract are met (No lateness, complaints etc.)

23-25 teaching hours per week. 5-12 hours of meetings. "This includes but is not limited to, holiday presentations, home visits, lesson planning and any necessary paper work."

Contract says "Dormitory style accommodation provided" I emailed to check what this meant, they said I get my own room but Living room and other facilities are shared. (Happy if this is the case) Accommodation is 30 mins metro from school.

Airfare paid, and national insurance 50% covered. (Healthcare?)
Does anyone work for them? Has anyone known anyone to have worked for them?

I have to pay 50% of visa cost and for medical exam.

A little about me:

This would be my first TEFL job. Compared to other offers in worse cities 9500RMB/month is very good (Average is around 8k/month).

I have a masters degree in Biology. 60 Hour online TEFL certificate.

Need to pay of a sizable chunk of debt off by next Sept or they'll start charging interest. Is it feasible to be able to do this on this salary with the living costs in Guangzhou?

Another thing which is raising a bit of a flag for me is that during the Footprints interview they really grilled me. It lasted about 25 mins. The interview with the school itself was very relaxed with an American fella who asked only a few questions then we spent about 10 minutes with me asking him questions. He said he was placed at the school through footprints and had stayed 4 years.

He said that teachers typically complete their contract, however some teachers leave due to culture shock.

In summary, from what I can tell this is a decent first time contract offer. I've been too cautious in the past and rejected good contracts because at first I wanted to earn 12kRMB a month (Unrealistic I know). Any of your comments would be much appreciated; particularly if you know anything about the company in question. The company have provided me with email addresses of current teachers but of course you can never be sure if these are genuine.

Thanks, and apologies for this rather disorganized post. I'm in a huge hurry today.

[teenoso]

I would not go near this kind of offer /contract, personally, but maybe some of the conditions are standard in the private sector.
1000 RMB held back every month , in case of complaints !! - No way
Dormitory style accommodation !! - sounds awful.
12 hours possible of 'meetings ' and other duties - yuk!
The hourly rate for 23 hours a week is about 100 RMB , which is also very poor , IMO,(and this assumes you are working office hours for free).

In terms of living and saving, 9000 RMB a month does not sound a lot for GZ which is a major city and therefore I guess has a high cost of living.

[Wiganesi]

To clarify on the accommodation they said I get my own room just the living room is shared. I'm assuming bathroom and kitchen also. Then again on the contract it says "dormitory style" They couldn't be trying to trick me, could they?

Do you think that it's a decent enough offer for a first job?

I'm struggling to get in anywhere else without experience.

[choudoufu]

just a translation error. any housing owned/rented by a company/unit
is usually called a 宿舍, whether individual units, shared "departments,"
or actual dorm-style dorms. student dormitories are also 宿舍。

most likely they are renting 2/3/4 bedroom "departments" off
campus for the teaching staff. who pays utilities? is there a deposit?
what about furniture and appliances? what if the other inmates are
nutjobs?

standard national insurance (PICC) costs 1680/year. why would they
only cover 50%? and 50% of visa/medical.....is that in china only?
do they cover half the visa and medical before you leave?

cost in usa: visa $160, medical $500-800
cost in china: res.permit 400 rmb/6 months, 800 rmb/annual,
medical 300 rmb

what's this 'bonus' crap? either the salary is 9500 or it isn't.
after tax subtract 580 rmb. i believe GZ is deducting the new
social insurance, about 11% of salary. subract another 1000 rmb.
you're down to 8000, er, 7000 without your, um, 'bonus.'

and about those additional hours.....it seems it can be any mix of
those duties listed. how do you feel about 12 hours of holiday
presentations............school promotions at the wanda mall dressed
as larry the laowai?

airfare paid? is that door-to-door with no upper limit? or is that
hometown to china...........la to pek, but you're responsible for flight
from home to la, and from beijing to the school? when is it paid,
and is e-ticket acceptable?

[Wiganesi]

Thanks for your reply.

I have to pay bills, but in Guangzhou I'm assuming I won't be needing heating so they won't be so much?

No deposit mentioned. The apartment is listed as furnished on the footprints advert but there is no mention of this on the contract. I'd rather not risk that.

If the other inmates are nutjobs I'm screwed although I don't have any objection to living with other teachers. I think I'd actually prefer it, could get very isolated otherwise.

Airfare has an upper limit of 10000RMB- which is sufficient for me to get there from the UK.

I’ve reread the contract and a few more things have came up.

“Provide ESL instruction to both on campus and outside institutions. Example, summer and winter camps are held off campus”

“Party B understands that due to the nature of Party A’s business, flexibility of working hours may be necessary and therefore Party B agrees to work flexible working hours”

One of the conditions for not having any bonus deducted
“All sections of monthly performance sheet are excellent or higher”

On top of the probationary period

“Party A shall keep 1000RMB as a contract deposit, it will be returned to party B upon completion of this contract. This deposit shall be deducted from Party B’s salary at a rate of 500RMB per month for 2 months, starting from the first month”

“Party B is entitled to have 1.5-2 complete days per week free of work”

Paid holidays for Chinese government assigned holidays and 3 days for Christmas.

I would be obliged to substitute my planned hours if a co-worker is sick.

Finally, I’ll copy and paste two more potentially dodgy paragraphs here:

“Within the contract period, party A should purchase the social insurance for party B according to the related law of the People’s Republic of China, and pay a certain proportion of the social insurance fee. Party B should then pay the personal social insurance fee every month. The social insureance fee paid by party B will be deducted fro the wage by Party A. Party B is responsible for all personal health and medical costs beyond insurance. Party A may not employ party B if they do not have provincial and travel medical insurance.”
About the visa. A few translation issues here I think too:

“Party A will help party B to apply for a working visa once party B is in China. Party A agrees to pay for 50% of the visa and necessary fees and Party B agrees to pay the remaining 50% as well as the expense of a mandatory medical body physical. (About 550RMB) Party B’s payment will be deducted from Party B’s salary from the month the Visa is issued. Any visa (other than a working Visa) Party B may desire is the responsibility of party B. Party B not qualify to apply visa or not being proven by government action, party B shall pay the full amount of the fee by himself”
I don’t think a few things in the contract are idea. The attachment is called “Sample contract” Do you think this means it is negotiable? Is it realistic that I could get them to remove the “Bonus” thing, which I think is impossible to achieve, and pay for my visa? Along with clearing up a few other things. Otherwise I think I won’t take the offer.

In your opinions, are there better jobs about? How do I find them? Echinacities? Agents?

[choudoufu]

it was looking crappier and crappier, but then.........

[Wiganesi]

It's strange because they want me to send stuff to them now for a visa and said it would take around a month. I'll send them an email trying to clarify some things but I think I'm going to leave this deal.

Any suggestions on how to find a good job?

[Kysorb]

The normal visa process does now require you to mail the school a criminal background check before they can process your invitation letters for a Z visa. This is new for a lot of cities since July 1st and is being enforced differently in all of these cities. Selective enforcement is very usual here in China .


You said you wont need the heater in GZ, but you sure will need the air conditioner.

That job doesn't pay well enough. Also I work at a training school and i can tell you that complaints are what parents do. I assume they loosely enforce that 1000 kuai only on the worst of teachers but i would never want that in the contract.. Verifiable things like late, sick, messy, OK but not "complaints"

As for looking for other jobs.

Keep looking all over and check the job posts here, look for jobs directly with schools instead of recruiters. Generally if a school is using a recruiter they also will accept direct applications.

Recruiters are salesmen but they are not evil, some are good some are bad and they just are doing their job selling... Very few of them will pull out a gun and stick it to your head or use a bat to break your legs. However, many of them claim to hold your hand for your whole contract and no one should believe this. Most of them will vanish as soon as they get you in the door and their money out the door. Outside of the massive amount of public school offers given out in another country recruiters often (not always but you have to do your research) are used as 3rd party middlemen to shade the name of a school with a poor reputation until the very end of the process.

[Wiganesi]

Thanks for the reply,

Do you mean it doesn't pay well enough to live a good quality of life in GZ or that it doesn't pay well enough considering the contractual obligations?

I've suggested a negotiation on the contract, I doubt they'll go for it but do you think if I could get them to remove the clause on the bonus and clear up what they mean on the visa issue it could be a good first job? Or is there better possible out there?

Thanks

[Kysorb]

I think 9000 a month with housing provided isn't terrible, but it isn't good for what the working hours and living conditions sound like.

I would ask them to provide you with the typical tax information as well before you make any decisions.

In reality if your housing is provided your bills might add up to 1000 a month depending on lots of circumstances. Your food if you eat at Chinese restaurants every night will probably be 2-3000 a month so to me that suggests you leave with about 4000 per month

I wouldn't agree to a probation period either they are just being cheap.

[teenoso]

Not sure why you would want to negotiate on a terrible contract.

According to many threads on this forum , companies in Guangdong cannot get the z visa or RP in-country , nor can they send you to HK to get the z visa, so they are planning to have you work illegally (maybe on a F visa, which is why they need some info from you).
Don't do it.
If you have seen negative stuff about this company before, and most people tell you here and now the contract sucks , just walk away. Or run (CDF).

Otherwise you may become another poster with a 'police raid and deported ' story.

[Wiganesi]

Thanks for the advice. I've seen that there are Biology jobs out there which I do have experience tutoring. They also tend to be much higher paid. Not a lot of them but I'm making some inquiries. I'll wait it out and find something better.