Job Discussion Forums

Trod76 · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 15

How can we really complain? We are working in a foreign country, we make more than our co-workers, we have free accomodations, and we complain. I know that some people have a right to complain, but come on! You could be working back at home in the U.S, Canada, U.K or whatever, paying for your car, insurance, rent, food, phone bill, cable bill, GAS, other debt's, and then taxed to death. And at the end of all that, you barely have enough money left over to do the things that you really want to do. If that's living life to you, then stay home! I gave up everything to come over here, so I could actually live and enjoy life. The work is fulfilling, the hours are awesome, the people are great, and I can travel and see things that people back home only dream of. Check your western values at the door, open your mind, forget about the big screen t.v's, and how the west has shaped us to believe that it's all about what you have that makes you important.

Travelingman · Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 33

Dear Trod,

I just want to say Thanks for itemizing all the reasons why I will be going to China shortly. I promise not to complain. Personally I have been invigorated by your post. Thanks again.

Very Happy

Guest · Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 9:48 pm Post subject:

DITTO Trod 76 - well said

kimo · Joined: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 668

Trod, nice that your experience is going well. And your points about checking some values at the door is valid. As someone who has been going abroad for 29 years, I can tell you there are a few values a person must never check. But being flexible and resourceful are helpful traits.

Now, back to your question about how to complain. I don't know the correct answer. I do know I have been looked in the eye and lied to without remorse and it has had serious consequences on my personal welfare. When I came to China I was on a high and nothing bothered me. After that lofty phase of culture shock settled down, I became a little more verbal during disagreements. I learned that people just stared back with a look that said, "you're the one making the noise so it must be your fault."

So where am I and what have I learned:

1. Screaming never works.
2. Learn to say, "NO". Learn to say, "NO". Learn to say, "NO".
3. Tell them to find another teacher. This one works wonders.
4. Refuse to teach until the matter is settled. (Compliments of Arioch)
5. When people start what eventually will become a negotiation by telling
you how inflexible westerners are, that's the time to be inflexible.

laodeng · Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 481

Please, dear Trod76, don't take it as a given that our Chinese tong2 shi4 are, over all, earning less than we are. If you investigate, you may discover that they have some quite handsome perks.

Travelingman · Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 33

Kino -- It was pleasant to read your prospective. I'm glad you posted. I do, however, have a question for you.

When you have 'refused to teach until the matter was settled' were you given problems at the end of your contract with flight refunds, letter or release etc? I'm curious to know how effective this was.

I look forward to your reply Smile

ChinaLady · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:28 am Post subject: Good List - Kimo

very good.
and the best!! learn to say NO, NO, NO.
and smile.
yes, refuse to go to class if the contract is being violated.
my issue was pay - o, they forgot it was pay day - next week, OK?
NO.
sat at my desk. tomorrow? NO.
still at my desk. after lunch? YES.
went to class. came back - ah, ha! pay!
none of the other teachers complained. huddled at their desks
with their heads down as I protested to the FAO substitue.
BUT - after I got my money - they all lined up like
the little mice they were.
SMILE!
ah, yes, I am paid ON TIME every month.
SMILE!

Slim Pickens · Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 299

Trod76 · Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 15

Here's the thing, I am twenty something, I love to backpack, I've been in China for 2 years, I'm moving to Hong Kong this summer for a year. I've spent a year in Harbin, and a year in Chengdu. For all the problems that a lot of other teacher's have had, I feel bad. I've had my own problems in the past, but nothing that wasn't taken care of. For any new teacher's coming to China, READ THIS LAST PART! Make as many connections as you can with people of importance, people of influence. I've met local government officials, who happen to love Canadian cigarettes. When you are talking with your boss, let it be known that you know these people by name and have met them. Once your boss knows that you know people like that, they sort of become your buddy really quickly. I guess everyone knows about "face", this is what it is all about. Don't be totally vulnerable when you don't have to.

anthyp · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 1320 Location: Chicago, IL USA

Good post, Trod. Surprised to hear you've been here so long, but I guess you showed Clanc - er, Rickster. I think he missed the main point anyway - that overall our situation is very good, in terms of work, quality of life, and so on, compared to both the locals and our own lives back home, for all kinds of people, not just teachers. Whatever problems some of us may have had with our schools or the police, we certainly don't live like "first generation economic immigrants," now do we?

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

I happily agree with Trod. Also I would like to add, one of our young Canadian teachers who was working at Wendy's hamburger joint in Cananda for 5 Canadian dollars an hour is earning 4 thimes that here and she has managed to pay off her student loan.
Why is it when people post a positive message about working in China, some people slam them.
I love teaching in China and when I meet people that whine and complain about nothing really substanial, I tell them, well you are free to leave at any time.
If I didn't like it I would leave.

anthyp · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 1320 Location: Chicago, IL USA

Yes, I think it's actually surprising how many people complain about the work situation here. I know some are just trying to offer advice, but ... we EFL teachers in China have got to have it better than a lot of others do anywhere else. As you say, woza, if you don't like the work situation here, it's easy enough to go elsewhere. Why you would stay and complain or try to dissaude others from coming here is beyond me ... especially other EFL teachers, because I'm not sure you're going to find a better job market than the one in China - though I'm sure some (ahem, khmerhit) would disagree.

Ludwig · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 8:03 am Post subject: Re: HOW CAN WE COMPLAIN?

anthyp · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 1320 Location: Chicago, IL USA

Well Clancy, - whoops, my bad, Rickster - all I am saying is you probably won't find anyplace better. Can you recommend someplace for the rest of us, in your infinite wisdom? You didn't respond to my argument that the market here for EFL instructors is as good as it gets. That's why we have nothing to complain about, because as an EFL instructor you've got it as good as it gets. But some people just find things to complain about anyway, don't they? Oh and say "Hi" to batman for me.

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

I don't fall into any of those catergories, compliant but never submissive.
Rickster with all respect, why do you stay here?
I think a lot of people who first came here had never had Chinese friends in their own country or any real interest in China or the people. Over 30 years I have and that is the main reason I came here because of the people.
I have not been disappointed