Job Discussion Forums

Sydney2002 · Joined: 10 Apr 2012 Posts: 55

Hi everyone

I'm in Oman. I have a friend from South Africa who is going to Saudi Arabia very soon to work at PNU in Riyadh. I've never been to KSA. The closest I've gotten to Saudis is in my program back in the States where we enrolled hundreds of SACM scholarship recipients. They were... interesting.

Now here in Oman, I work with a handful of teachers who have had jobs in KSA-- both male and female. All of the females say the same thing. It is NO PLACE for a single, western woman.

This woman is an experienced teacher who has worked in Korea and in Bahrain. The trouble is, she does not conform to other cultures at all if it doesn't suit her. She doesn't even really respect them. She had huge problems in Korea because she asserted herself so frequently and then the same thing happened in Bahrain.

Now she's off to Riyadh. I'm literally horrified. I never actually thought this would materialize. Anyhow, my question is, if she says the wrong thing to the wrong person- what kinds of repercussions could she be facing?

Is it really true that women must wear an abaya upon arrival in Riyadh at the airport? If she gives lip to some official there, will they just send her back on the same plane she arrived in and refuse to let her in?

This is what I'm hoping.

It's too late for me to warn her. I've been telling her for two years to stay away from Saudi, but it seems this was the only place she could find work this quickly. Are the religious police really as intolerant as they've been made out to be... with foreign women?

Perhaps I"m worrying for nothing and this woman will have the fear of God knocked into her when she arrives and she'll subdue her natural tendencies to assert herself... ih'shallah.

But if she doesn't, what then? Please respond?

It's too late to warn her. She's got a ticket booked and will be there in a matter of days. But I feel like I might just lose sleep over this... Sad

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

She is an adult. She has to make her own decisions.

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

hocus pocus · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject:

If she managed to find trouble in Bahrain, Saudi will be a nightmare for her. Bahrain is excessively tolerant of Expats. So, if she couldn't hack it in Bahrain, there's no way she can deal with Saudi culture.

plumpy nut · Joined: 12 Mar 2011 Posts: 1652

Just in what ways does she assert herself?

Wilsonthefarmer

johnslat · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject:

Dear Sydney2002,

More than likely, she is a heading for a (or more than one) bad (perhaps very bad) experience(s).

But what can you do? Nothing, of course, Most of us learn at least some things the hard way,

Sorry,
John

CANDLES · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject:

Dear Sydney2000,

Why are you losing sleep over this? As everyone has pointed out she's an 'adult', so she can take care of herself.

As for 'asserting' herself- in what context? She has to obey the Laws of the country. Oman is very 'understanding', but is still a traditional country. How does she behave there? She can try and not wear an abaya, but she won't get very far....irrespective of anything, even at the airport, never mind anywhere else!

Let her come to KSA, get the experience, even for a week and then she'll know what to expect.

Weirder people have come and gone from this Kingdom; she'll just be another blip in the desert. Rolling Eyes

DLIguy

trapezius · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject:

You can get away without abaya in malls in Jeddah, but probably not in Riyadh.

As others have said, you can't do anything about her. Either she will put up with all the nonsense here if she is financially desperate, or she will snap and maybe fired and have to leave.

johnslat · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject:

Dear DLIguy,

You wouldn't be a "reincarnation" yourself by any chance, would you? I have the strangest feeling that you've been on these forums before under a different nom de plume (or should I say noms de plume?) Very Happy

Regards
Always John

Wilsonthefarmer · Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject:

I never cease to be amazed by the Magic Kingdom!

It sounds as if DLIguy has never ceased to be amazed by me in the past. Laughing

Sydney2002 · Joined: 10 Apr 2012 Posts: 55

Thanks for the quick replies.

'Ih'shallah' was a typo too, by the way. I meant in'shallah, she will have the fear of God knocked into her quickly when she arrives in Riyadh and she will not say or do anything to draw negative attention to herself.

Knowing her as long as I have though, I'm afraid this is unlikely.

It does sound however, judging by the posts I've read here, that the worst case scenario would be cancelation of her visa followed by deportation... unless she actually breaks the law there.

To answer someone's question regarding Oman- I am the one who is in Oman. She has only ever visited me here. And it was difficult at times because she expected Oman to be as 'free' as Bahrain with regard to women's behavior and dress. Needless to say, I had some issues with her lack of awareness and respect for Omani society and culture. There were no negative incidents here though, as I was here to prevent them while she visited.

It was seeing her behavior here in Oman, and then seeing the drastic difference in the lifestyle in Bahrain when I visited her, that convinced me all the more that KSA is not a good place for her. As submissive as I am to the societal expectations in other cultures, Saudi is even too much for me.

Another issue, which I worry could be quite serious for her, is Saudi's lack of tolerance for other faiths. My friend and I were both raised in evangelical churches in our own countries. Although evangelizing is prohibited all over the Gulf and most of us are sensitive to this and choose to behave accordingly, at least we have the option of going to gov't approved churches with other foreigners. Again- I am convinced that she does not fully grasp the extremity of how different Saudi Arabia is from Bahrain and Oman in this respect.

As someone said however, this is a grown woman we are talking about and she does have experience abroad (albeit, it's not the best experience) and therefore can make her own decisions.

I feel restless and unsettled because I know this teacher well and have seen how quickly things have unraveled in the past in the other countries she has worked in. That said, I have never been to KSA, I will never go to KSA, and perhaps my concerns are a bit over the top. I have a tendency to worry excessively about others sometimes...

She is a sincere and reliable person with a strong work ethic. Unfortunately however, these things have not necessarily helped her in previous situations where she could not, or would not submit to the cultural expectations of others.

Guess all I can do now is pray. Thanks again for the responses.

DLIguy · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:42 am Post subject:

CANDLES · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:23 am Post subject:

This is one of the strangest concern about a colleague, friend I've ever come across.

Even a mother wouldn't worry about a 2 year old this much!

In Oman, unless she was wondering around with a bikini, and shorts in the street, then the Omanis are pretty flexible people.

I think your friend is being an 'extrovert' for the sake of bringing attention to herself, nothing else.