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johnslat

I know that whenever I attempt French, I feel more - how can I put it - well, debonair. So, what do YOU think?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/11/multilingualism

Chaleureusement,
Jean

Shroob · Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 1339

I would think it's more to do with the culture a society speaks than the language it speaks.

For example (sweeping statements coming), France is often associated with high culture, fine dining, romantic evening etc. Where as, forgive me, Russia is associated with freezing snow, communists and potatoes. So I think those perceptions have more influence than the language itself. When I try and do a French accent I project those images and I sound quite 'posh', I could be an artist sat, sipping wine over a sunset. When I do a Russian accent I project myself as a surly soldier, drinking vodka and standing outside in the cold. But maybe that's just me...

MuscatGary · Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:44 am Post subject:

[quote="Shroob"]I would think it's more to do with the culture a society speaks than the language it speaks.

But doesn't language itself influence culture?

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:30 am Post subject:

What is all this reactionary nonsense?! Piggie propaganda!!! Off to the re-education camps with all of you! Claims that language or culture could possibly affect personality, eh?! All such mistaken thinking will be scientifically eradicated by our trained professionals in the Department of the Enlightenment, and that is ABSOLUTELY FINAL!!!!!!

Hic!

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Shroob · Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 1339

[quote="MuscatGary"]

corniche · Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 38

Absolutely, John. And it also changes your face because of the way you use the muscles.

FreakingTea · Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 167

You're thinking of your personal associations with the language. The language isn't "conferring" anything except the functions you're (hopefully) conveying. All the communist literature I've read was in English, so I don't particularly associate Russian with communism. Other aspects of Russia, sure. But if anything, Russian is more greatly influenced by the system and culture in which it developed. The development of Modern English correlated with the rise of capitalism in England, and further developments came from colonialist and imperialist influences. But speaking English isn't spreading capitalism unless you're speaking it with a gun in your hand.

I will concede that certain cultural concepts can be legitimized in the mind of a monolingual speaker if those concepts can only be expressed in a language in a particular way. But the concepts themselves didn't originate in the language. Gendered and racial slurs come to mind.

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

@Corniche

ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

Yep, it does. Even within a language, the synonyms you choose can change the tone and personality of something dramatically. Look at Orwell, or the Nazis.

In Japanese, for example, the word for wife literally translates as the "person in the house" while the word for husband literally means "master." How can these literal meanings not effect the way the language makes us think and the way we think affects the way we act.

FreakingTea · Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 167

sparks · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 632

Didn't Pinker fairly successfully argue down Whorf, or Sapir-Whorf, in the Language Instinct. Kind of rehashing something that, I would say, has been shown to be untrue a while ago.

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

[quote="johnslat"]I know that whenever I attempt French, I feel more - how can I put it - well, debonair. So, what do YOU think?

I think my personality does change a bit when I speak German, but I think the culture has a lot to do with it. I look at how people act and listen to how they use language. When I attempt Russian, which I am not fluent in, I don't feel any different.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject:

Dear sparks,

"Kind of rehashing something that, I would say, has been shown to be untrue a while ago.

As the use of the past tense shows, what was "untrue years ago" (I think the past tense would have been the better choice) is usually true now (e.g.
Years ago, I thought that Whorf's theories were totally untrue).

Whorf certainly went too far, but the other extreme (which is, "that all languages share the same deep structure of thought and that thought has a universal quality separate from language . . . . that languages express thinking and perception in different ways but do not shape the thinking and perception.") may also be too "black and white."

http://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=29489

http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/626

Regards,
John